Why am I using a Velo Leaf filter?

[Woolsocks]

I inherited (from previous brewer) a Velo leaf "DE" filter, 4 sq m., for a 15bbl brewpub.

Why do I continue to use it instead of selling it and getting a nice simple sheet filter with no moving parts, easier and quicker cleaning, and won't break on me all the time?

If I took all the money we've spent on parts for the leaf filter over the last two years, I could have bought a plate-and-frame sheet filter and two years' worth of filter sheets easily. This isn't even counting the labor for using it and repairing it.

For the big guys, I know using plain DE vs. sheets is a cost savings, but for a little guy? I don't see it.

I'm ready to sell this sucker to a bigger brewery and replace with a simple plate-and-frame or cartridge filter. Can you tell me why I shouldn't?

[pbutlert]

DE filters are much better for removing solids. Sheet filters are better for "polishing". If you have a medium or low flocculating yeast, you will have problems achieving proper clarity with a plate and frame filter, IMO. Also, I believe the general rule of thumb is 1 sq. meter per 10 Bbls., so if you are just filtering 15 at a time it may be a little big.

[Woolsocks]

I thought that the sheets were made of DE/Perlite/PVPP/etc. just like the layer of filteraid on a leaf in my leaf filter.

If the material through which the beer flows is the same, why would one remove different stuff than the other?

[beertje46]

Your Velo is a depth filter. Look at the spacing between the leaves. You can fill that volume with solids; filter agent, celulose, yeast, etc. Now look at the space between the filter plates on a plate and frame. See the difference? Much less space to fill with crap.

[tarmadilo]

I've used both and prefer a leaf filter. I found it easier to clean, easier to sanitize, and, while certainly not trouble-free, definitely less of a buttpain.

It does sound like you might be better served with a smaller one, but as I've been out of brewing for about ten years now, I could be wrong!

Cheers, Tim

[beertje46]

I've used both and prefer a leaf filter. I found it easier to clean, easier to sanitize, and, while certainly not trouble-free, definitely less of a buttpain.

It does sound like you might be better served with a smaller one, but as I've been out of brewing for about ten years now, I could be wrong!

Cheers, Tim

I started to say; You use it because it's already there and paid for

The learning curve is higher for the leaf filter but once you get it down there's no turning back. With a 4 meter filter on a 15 bbl. system and a proper number of transfer tees, with some planning, you should be able to filter three batches back-to-back with one precoat. Start with the lightest beer and push out with the next lightest, repeat. Then you have three tanks to clean with one set-up and three batches of beer to brew.

[Woolsocks]

There's no question you can get more stuff through a leaf filter than a sheet filter without blinding, but how often in a brewpub does one have 3 batches to filter back-to-back? I've done two (occasionally) but never had the schedule work right for three.

With a sheet filter, wouldn't I just filter batch #1, backflush with hot liquor, then do batch 2? Sounds easier to me.

[Woolsocks]

How about the quality of filtration? Is there something inherent in leaf filters that makes it easier to get clear beer without stripping?

[beertje46]

There's no question you can get more stuff through a leaf filter than a sheet filter without blinding, but how often in a brewpub does one have 3 batches to filter back-to-back? I've done two (occasionally) but never had the schedule work right for three.

With a sheet filter, wouldn't I just filter batch #1, backflush with hot liquor, then do batch 2? Sounds easier to me.

When I worked for the Bluegrass Brewing Co. brewpub (left 7 years ago), I'd filter 3 batches on a regular basis with a 2 meter Della-Toffola erosion (sealed dosing tank, no dosing pump) filter. No back-flush required or possible on a leaf filter, which saves time.

How about the quality of filtration? Is there something inherent in leaf filters that makes it easier to get clear beer without stripping?

IMHO, there is no real difference in the quality as long as you are comparing apples to apples in micron size. Quality of life, yes, faster filter runs, faster set-up/tear-down, more time to spend on the things you'd rather do then filter...

But hey, it's my two cents worth and I have always used leaf filters so I might be spoiled. Right now I use a 7.5 meter Velo in a 10 meter housing, so it's scalable.

[Woolsocks]

Beerje,

If I'm understanding you right, with the leaf filters, once you're up the learning curve (which I think I am after 2 years and hundreds of runs) you *save* time? I'm not seeing any time savings, personally. What am I doing wrong?

My filter is stored packed with caustic from the previous cleaning. I drain that, rinse, tighten the plates down, CIP sanitize, drain, precoat, filter, chase with liquor, drain filter, knock the DE off the plates with a hose, backflush filter, CIP with caustic, done. This process takes me about 6 hours if all goes well. 6 hours to filter 15 barrels seems slow, not fast.

Assuming I'm doing short runs (1 15-bbl batch, occasionally 2), where does the time-saving come in?

[redlodgesam]

it shouldnt take six hours

Beerje,

If I'm understanding you right, with the leaf filters, once you're up the learning curve (which I think I am after 2 years and hundreds of runs) you *save* time? I'm not seeing any time savings, personally. What am I doing wrong?

My filter is stored packed with caustic from the previous cleaning. I drain that, rinse, tighten the plates down, CIP sanitize, drain, precoat, filter, chase with liquor, drain filter, knock the DE off the plates with a hose, backflush filter, CIP with caustic, done. This process takes me about 6 hours if all goes well. 6 hours to filter 15 barrels seems slow, not fast.

Assuming I'm doing short runs (1 15-bbl batch, occasionally 2), where does the time-saving come in?

We have a four sq meter velo filter and filter anywhere from 15 to 45 bbl at once with it. We sanitize (45 minutes), precoat (30 minutes), filter (a little slower than 1 bbl per minute), clean, rinse, and drain (1.5 hours).

my brewer uses it way more than i do and is far more proficient than i am, but i prefer DE to plate and frame. As alluded to in an earlier post, plate and frame filters cannot handle heavy sediment loads well.

with velo, keep a spare dosing pump and seals for the main pump on hand. it takes forever to get spare parts if they are not in stock in the US.

good luck,
sam

[redlodgesam]

dissolved CO2?

also make sure there is as little dissolved CO2 in the unfiltered beer as possible. my velo dislikes dissolved CO2.

Sam

[Woolsocks]

OK, after reading Sam's post, I cranked up my flow rate and cranked the beer through at around .75 bbl/min. Managed the whole process in 4 hr. Filtering with a vengeance! That'll teach the filter to break!

[leftnutbrown]

filter

Hi All!

I agree with Sam, DE filters are the way to go. We have a 5m prospero and it is,so far, the best filtration system ever. However, we do use perlite instead of DE, but are filtrations are just as easy as with DE, and it costs less. Usually we filter a min. of 40-60 BBL's with a total time of about 4-5 hrs. w/ clean up. I have used both types of systems in the past and I have always perfer DE filters. These filters do take more time to learn how to use, but they don't leak, so oxidation is less of a factor in the final product. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers!

Howard

[Woolsocks]

O2

OK, oxygen was another issue of mine -- seems like a DE filter would pick up MORE O2 because of the slurry tank. Then again, the filter sheets on a sheet filter would be exposed to the air.... How about a cartridge filter? Anyone like those?

Perhaps leaf filters are the way to go and mine just sucks? I've only used one, and have repaired it several times. Annual filter repairs budget is around $1200 on average. Is that comparable to what you guys spend?