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  • Alternative flavorings

    Well here it is holiday season and somebody just had to ask me if you could make an ale with plant resins (like trementina, myrrh, copal, frankincense(sp), etc..) . I figure its got to get dissolved first and most of these don't dissolve in H2O. Perhaps an etOH Extract??

    Spruce tips and other similiar plants seem to impart flavors to ales-is it from the resin fractions that are partially H2O soluable? Does this idea of spruce even relate to the above resins?

    Any thoughts?
    Anybody ever try this or even think about enough to wonder?

    Ahh, just somethin' else t' do!!

  • #2
    alcohol

    I have heard of simply steeping said adjuncts in vodka, bourbon or whiskey for some of these applications. Not sure exactly what would work, but testing would be quick & cost effective.

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    • #3
      in general, the less polar (hydrophobic) compounds will more or less dissolve in EtOH.
      And since Vodka only has 40% EtOH, and 60% water, it's always a good solvent to use for flavor extraction..
      I will definitely go with Vodka.

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      • #4
        frankincense

        So if you read this link about what's in frankincense, how would one get this compound in beer? and would you want that?



        Happy Holidays!

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        • #5
          So I did a small trial.

          Dissolved propolis, copal, frankincense, trementina, and myrrh in etOH. Heat solution (use electric). Slowly, pour solution into a large pot of cold water. Wait. Waxes will float, heavy resins will sink, and the water has the flavor.

          Step one.

          Now, who's gonna try to brew with something like this?

          And BTW, is the compound from the frankincense( I mentioned in the last post) now in the water fraction?

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          • #6
            Incensole Acetate

            This is just a thought on the subject of solubility in beer...

            There are other acetates that are common constituents in beer, such as isoamyl acetate. If that acetate is soluble in either water or ethanol, then another acetate molecule would ideally have similar solubility. Maybe.

            Assuming for a moment that it does stick around in the beer, what is the TTB going to say about adding a psychoactive substance to said beer? Personally, I think that I'm going to give it a shot just for kicks on a small batch, but production-wise, you may have entered vaguely new legal territory.

            Happy Brewing,
            Bill
            Millstream Brewing

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            • #7
              Frankincense & Myrrh

              I considered using F & M to spice a holiday beer. After tasting them, the bitterness was so overpowering & unpleasant I couldn't see anything good coming out of adding the flavor to beer. Never tried creating an essence with vodka so I don't know if that extracts the astringency. Considered instead introducing it in a way that would get the aroma without the bitterness. One idea that never materialized was to smoke it, piping the smoke into a barrel and then racking the beer into the barrel afterwards. Let it sit on the smoke in the barrel for a few weeks (months?) until it absorbs the aroma.

              Curious if anyone has ever tried this method for getting aroma into beer. Haven't yet had the time for following through on the experiment.

              David

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              • #8
                Go right ahead and smoke it, just as long as you don't inhale.
                Paul Thomas
                Brewer
                Sockeye Brewing
                www.sockeyebrew.com

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                • #9
                  opening an old wound

                  I hate to revive this thread, but it seemed kind of inconclusive.

                  I spoke to an herbalist (with a Master's Degree) who informed me that frankensense is a perfectly harmless plant resin. It is actually used to flavor certain sodas. It's primarily used for arthritis pain management, and in some cases, in proper doses will rid the body of most worms (we are talking GI and skin surface types.). In excess, it can mess your kidneys and liver up, but the amount necessary to flavor a beer is harmless. Like alcohol, it also contains depressants. That being said, how would and when one should add this to the beer remains a mystery. My biggest concern is a possibility of producing methanol. Not sure how this could happen (why I am asking all of you). There just isn't much information out there regarding the use of plant resins in beer, and I am very curious.

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                  • #10
                    In a commercial context, I would never mess with anything I don't understand. Some guy's degree in this or that is not what I would call comforting. But I hate to discourage experimentation.

                    Has it occurred to you that smoking grain with frankincense might give you the flavour and aroma without the potential side effects of actually consuming it? I never heard of anyone eating it, drinking a "tea" of it, or anything of the sort, but people have been inhaling the smoke and enjoying the aroma for millennia without complaint.

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                    • #11
                      Yes, as a matter of fact I played around with somking the FS. It leaves behind a very thick layer of soot which would cling nicely to the grain. It has a very unusual odor (not at all reminiscent of Midnight Mass) like molten solder on an iron. I am concerned it will taint the smoker in our kitchen, which in turn will anger the chef. And, to my knowlege, burning it produces turpines which do not fare well in smoked beers (according to what I read). It's still worth a shot, but I like the flavor and aroma much better prior to combustion.

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                      • #12
                        Hmmm, I was thinking of midnight Mass exactly there. A pity it comes out smelling off. I would still be leery of putting in anything that hasn't been studied as a food substance or additive. A Google search turns up the fact that it is used as a flavouring in foods, but I can't find any studies that indicate its possible toxicity in doses of x. That's all that I am being stubborn about. If it were clear and well established what a harmless dose is, that would be something else. FWIW, see http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/plantox/index.cfm

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