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  • Barleywine Attenuation

    Hey all,
    I was just wondering what kind of attenuation brewers out there get on their Barleywines and Strong ales.
    I know it varies with mash temps, etc. and obviously yeast strains, but does 69.5% seem low?
    I'm using Wyeast 1098 British Ale with an O.G of 24P and got down to 7.3- it only took 3 weeks!... It tastes pretty good and is practically clear now. Is this normal?
    What have others experienced on big beers?
    Thanks!

  • #2
    It sounds as though you are not oxygenating / aerating enough. I used to brew a couple of barley wines at circa 24 to 27 plato. Both of these had the normal wort aeration on transfer from whirlpool to FV, and then we started intermittion aerating after 12 hours until the PG was, if I remember correctly, about 15 P, though since it is over 10 years ago, I may have the PG wrong. If anything continue aeration until PG is lower.

    I know when I did a 33 P brew, I stopped the aeration at 11 P, and it was far too early - we only got 17 % ABV, not the target 18 + !!

    The trouble is that aeration levels depend on the yeast so it is likely to be trial and error.

    Don't forget also to make sure you have enough yeast nutrient, particularly zinc

    Cheers
    dick

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    • #3
      wow

      17%.......damn. That is all.

      ~Geoff

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      • #4
        I just brewed our first batch of barley wine. When deciding to make one... I just did not want a sweet cloying bomb, like some I have had.
        Using Fermentis s4, mash temp about 149, 100% maris otter...
        aerated with compressor a hair more vigorous than normal for a 40min knockout and then aerated 10-15 min. day 1 and 2.
        Started at 24.5 or so
        finished right on target in low 5s.
        Moved to wood... won't sell any until 2010.

        sampling has proven it to be pretty tasty... but still real hot!
        ________________
        Matthew Steinberg
        Co-Founder
        Exhibit 'A' Brewing Co.
        Framingham, MA USA

        Head Brewer
        Filler of Vessels
        Seller of Liquid
        Barreled Beer Aging Specialist
        Yeast Wrangler
        Microbe Handler
        Malt Slinger
        Hop Sniffer
        Food Eater
        Music Listener

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        • #5
          7.3 is a pretty high terminal gravity. can you pull a sample, add more yeast, and force-ferment it (put it on a shaker table or run a stir bar in it over night) to find out how far it is capable of fermenting out? I would be uncomfortable with a terminal more than .5 over force.
          John Gillooly
          Brewmaster
          Drake's Brewing Co.

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          • #6
            Since your attenuation horse has (evidently) left the barn, you have a couple of options. Obviously, you can't oxygenate this late in the game, but you could whip up a generous starter with your primary yeast and oxygenate the living hell out of it, then pitch.

            Alternatively, you could pitch a mild-tasting Brett strain, such as B. claussenii. This will work without oxygenation (Brett is a real survivor), but it will give you a fruity/estery beer, and it is slow. If that's OK, then this is the simplest remedy.

            In future, oxygenate daily until you hit at least 65% of your attenuation target. Use yeast nutrient at double the recommended dose; more is OK. Pitch at least 3x your normal rate; more is OK.

            Consider working some calcium into the mash (carbonate, chloride, sulfate, whatever works) and acidify your sparge water with phosphoric acid (not too much or your beer tastes like Coca-Cola -- "top-up" with lactic, which tastes better).

            It might seem crazy to add nutrients to such a rich wort, but you have got to supply the minerals; that's what gets you with HG brewing.

            I've been doing small batches of barleywine since forever (like ~2 hL), usually at ~30P IG, which I bottle condition and pass around as holiday gifts. Feel free to PM me.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MatthewS
              I just brewed our first batch of barley wine. When deciding to make one... I just did not want a sweet cloying bomb, like some I have had.
              Using Fermentis s4, mash temp about 149, 100% maris otter...
              aerated with compressor a hair more vigorous than normal for a 40min knockout and then aerated 10-15 min. day 1 and 2.
              Started at 24.5 or so
              finished right on target in low 5s.
              Moved to wood... won't sell any until 2010.

              sampling has proven it to be pretty tasty... but still real hot!
              Why do you aered with the s-04. If I believe the site from Lallemand it's not nessecery to aerat with dry yeast.
              Or is it beter to so ?

              Kees

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              • #8
                [QUOTE=wiredgourmet]

                "Alternatively, you could pitch a mild-tasting Brett strain, such as B. claussenii. This will work without oxygenation (Brett is a real survivor), but it will give you a fruity/estery beer, and it is slow. If that's OK, then this is the simplest remedy."

                My oh my, has craft brewing evolved (or devolved? revolved?)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by brewninja

                  My oh my, has craft brewing evolved (or devolved? revolved?)
                  That would depend on how you feel about historical reenactments

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by porter
                    I'm using Wyeast 1098 British Ale with an O.G of 24P and got down to 7.3- it only took 3 weeks!... It tastes pretty good and is practically clear now. Is this normal?
                    What have others experienced on big beers?
                    Thanks!
                    Sounds great to me! "tastes pretty good " is the important part right?
                    I shoot for 25og and 7.5-8fg for my Barleywine. I wouldnt do anything else to it other than dry hopping or wood aging. I barrel age for 6 months after a 21-28 day fermentation then dry hop for a week before kegging and serving.
                    Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
                    tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
                    "Your results may vary"

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                    • #11
                      My BW starts at 21.0P OG and is "dry" at 2.3P FG. I also use SO4 and oxygenate with air only at knockout. Although this yeast is able to ferment standard worts with no additional oxygen at knockout, adding more oxygen doesn't seem to change the flavor profile much; it only increases the mass of yeast. Yeast will multiply until all the oxygen is gone (lipids and other nutrients notwithstanding), and that is what is needed in a big beer. Vigorous growth and a vigorous appetite. Very happy with this yeast's performance. Other suggestions here on how to kickstart your high FG beer sound reasonable. Might want to try a high attenuation yeast like SO4. Rehydrate on top of warm water for 15 minutes, whisk it into the water, add some beer to attemperate and acclimatize the yeast to sugar and alcohol for another 15 minute rest, and then oxygenate it before pitching. Or sell a sweet beer. Good luck!
                      Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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