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  • Mash tun additions

    I was talking to the chef here and he asked about additions to the mash tun. I was just curious about it. Other that hops, witch I understand is very problomatic, what else can you add that's worth it? I see fruit as being a real pain in the ass and screwing up the pH and Ca+ buffering ability as well as adding pectin but, just for fun, what works? Doing a wit soon so I was just playing aaround with the idea. Monday. You know how they canbe. Thanks

  • #2
    I have added pumpkin to the mash, and some various spices during the recirc.
    Last edited by Jephro; 06-08-2009, 12:54 PM.
    Jeff Byrne

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    • #3
      Freshly ground, French Roast Coffee in an oatmeal stout mash just prior to vorlauf.
      Cheers & I'm out!
      David R. Pierce
      NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
      POB 343
      New Albany, IN 47151

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      • #4
        A word from the luddite minority...

        Originally posted by beertje46
        Freshly ground, French Roast Coffee in an oatmeal stout mash just prior to vorlauf.
        Coffee is a bit oily. That doesn't cause any problems for you? Meanwhile, doesn't patent taste pretty much the same since the characteristic coffee flavours and aromas will be largely boiled off? Doesn't some caffeine get into the beer, however little, and wouldn't you be required to label it accordingly?

        I've heard of this, and even of adding chocolate to stout and porter, which is immensely more oily, and its characteristic flavour is completely destroyed by temps over say 120F. Not sure what it can really contribute when added before or during the boil. Perhaps chocolate could be introduced after the boil in some form, I imagine cocoa to avoid greasing up a batch of beer, then filtered out? Or might it settle?

        But honestly, would either ingredient really do anything that you couldn't accomplish with traditional ingredients? The palette of flavours and aromas possible through using various malts and various fermentation critters is so vast and so rich, I honestly don't understand why anyone would go to "outside" ingredients.

        I'm sorry, but to me, adding herbs, spices, fruit, vegetables, bark, roots, berries, nuts, coffee, chocolate, etc, to beer is like a sculptor who feels the need to paint his sculptures. He's got more than enough to work with if he learns to exploit what he's got expertly. He's only going to paint them if he's insecure in his knowledge and craftsmanship.

        Brewers should never listen to 90% of chefs. I know. I'm a chef and a brewer, and never the twain shall meet. But it's easy for me: my biases as a chef are the same as my biases as a brewer: technique, technique, technique. You *create* flavour by cooking, you don't merely add it with exotic condiments. (Well, OK, most do, but I call BS on that.) http://www.youtube.com/wiredgourmet

        /never went to culinary school
        //never went to brewing school
        ///damn proud of it, too

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        • #5
          Well, one reason why brewers would want to introduce something into the mix is to explore and have fun. Beer was made for over a thousand years before hops were introduced and I think we all would agree that it would be a dismal world without those heavenly gifts.
          Another reason to use something exotic (non-traditional) is for marketing....
          Seriously, how many pale ales are on the shelves these days?
          How many Banana Oatmeal Porters are there??
          Just my $0.02

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          • #6
            wiredgourmet:
            I find your response ridiculous given that you ruin a perfectly good brisket on your cooking show with liquid smoke and gelatin.

            Your painting analogy fits perfectly as you paint on the liquid smoke there.

            Is that technique, technique, technique or insecurity of knowledge and craftsmanship?
            Last edited by rudge75; 06-08-2009, 09:22 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rudge75
              wiredgourmet:
              I find your response ridiculous given that you ruin a perfectly good brisket on your cooking show with liquid smoke and gelatin.

              Your painting analogy fits perfectly as you paint on the liquid smoke there.

              Is that technique, technique, technique or insecurity of knowledge and craftsmanship?
              I'm so busted ) The point is to *simulate* bbq in a conventional oven. I'm sorry if it was confusing.

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              • #8
                Damn spot on!

                "I'm sorry, but to me, adding herbs, spices, fruit, vegetables, bark, roots, berries, nuts, coffee, chocolate, etc, to beer is like a sculptor who feels the need to paint his sculptures. He's got more than enough to work with if he learns to exploit what he's got expertly. He's only going to paint them if he's insecure in his knowledge and craftsmanship."

                So perhaps some of us divergent brewers are not pure sculptors, but rather toying in multi-media?

                I seem to believe that simpler beers are best...that is if the brewers have the skills and ovaries or balls to not need to cover their lack of ability by adding the distractant of the week.
                Marketing is the bane of brewers' existence. Making beers for pure novelty-without purpose- makes me ill.

                Making any beer, regardless of the ingredients, with the sole purpose of making beauty in a glass is what I wish this industry existed for.
                IMHO.
                Last edited by Moonlight; 06-09-2009, 10:16 AM.

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                • #9
                  I go out of my way to make every one of my beers Kein Reinheitsgebot. Don't tell me what to put in my beers--or what to leave out. I'll use oatmeal, sugar, flowers, herbs, tubers, spices, fruit, maple syrup, and anything else that I think will make a fantastic beer. Nobody paints solely with four colors, or cooks solely with four ingredients. For those "purists" out there that limit themselves to four basic ingredients and shun beers that are more eclectic: Broaden your horizons! Be progressive with the art. Luddites and their kind who don't push the envelope aren't advancing the science and art of beer. In the end, "If it tastes good, then it IS good."
                  Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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                  • #10
                    Oops, looks like I started a threadjacking. Not really my intention, but the debate is interesting.

                    I have read here about people smoking their own grain, barrel ageing, altering fermentation conditions to get interesting effects, working with lacto and brett, growing their own hops, etc...

                    So many different types of malt, so many possible flavours, and they can be combined, proportioned, blended. So many different hop varieties, so many ways to schedule the additions. So many strains of yeast and bacteria to work with...

                    Such a huge amount of variety can be realised with those four simple ingredients, the possibilities are truly inexhaustible. I don't find it limiting, but really challenging, to stick with them.

                    I suspect that just about any flavour is possible from traditional ingredients and refining your techniques. I don't actually know this for a fact, because I simply cannot exhaust the potential of the basic four. I'll die long before that happens. That really excites me. It amazes me that so many different types of beer can be made with a measly four ingredients. How is that not pushing the envelope?

                    I suppose I'm saying that there's a difference between pushing the envelope and opening a different one. Not that there's anything wrong with that

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                    • #11
                      All I can say is that if you use pumpkin or any related veg. add 55lbs of rice hulls to every 10bbl. Worst stuck mash of my life was a pumpkin stout.
                      Allen Van Anda
                      Trapp Lager
                      Stowe, VT 05672

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gitchegumee
                        Don't tell me what to put in my beers--or what to leave out. I'll use oatmeal, sugar, flowers, herbs, tubers, spices, fruit, maple syrup, and anything else that I think will make a fantastic beer. Nobody paints solely with four colors, or cooks solely with four ingredients.

                        I agree with both of you. I brew 2 beers (our lagers) per the Reinheitsgebot. My goal there is simply a "gscheit's bier - a normal beer" per the German tradition of beer being a basic part of the diet. Nothing fancy there just a staple that helps one relax at the end of the day. When diverting from the Reinheitsgebot, what's important to me is that the same philosophy is used, that is, one of the beauties of the RHG is that the consumer knows what they're getting and it's gotten in a traditional process. The line has to be drawn somewhere, if it's simply a question of extra ingredients - more power to diversity. But it gets fuzzy to me when processing aids are involved. Even PVPP (allowed per RHG) is a stretch to me, the stipulation being that none of the aids used (what about their contaminants) carryover into the beer. But the slope is slippery and using kettle defoamers, exogenous enzymes or antioxidants, non MBT developing hop extracts, foam stabilizers, etc goes against what craft beer is to me. In a nutshell: grains, fruits, spices and sugars yes.

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                        • #13
                          why no hops

                          I'd add pumpkin, coffee, Onions, and thought about Cous-Cous but havent tried that one yet.

                          I may sound a bit nieve but why no addition of hops?

                          I used to do this homebrewing a few years ago and had great results.
                          "Uncle" Frank
                          Frank Fermino
                          Brewer I, Redhook, Portsmouth, NH
                          Writer, Yankee Brew News, New England
                          Wise-ass, Everywhere, Always

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                          • #14
                            Pumpkin

                            Originally posted by Trapp Brew
                            All I can say is that if you use pumpkin or any related veg. add 55lbs of rice hulls to every 10bbl. Worst stuck mash of my life was a pumpkin stout.
                            Rice hulls are not a bad idea, especially if you don't have a mixer on your MT. I used stir my mash like an Olympic kayaker to avoid clumping and stuck mash. Now i have found the best way is to put it in a bucket with a bit of sparge water and wisk it into a slurry and then stir in. A bit more time consuming, but if you consider having a stuck pumpkin mash it can save you hours and hours and hours....
                            Last edited by Jephro; 06-09-2009, 01:36 PM.
                            Jeff Byrne

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                            • #15
                              Glad I started some controversary. I was wondering if the orange peel and coriander would carry over into the kettle. I hate boiling the stuff. BTW, I work with Chefs all the time. I find them inspiring and very creative. They are always using wort, hops, spent you name it. I guess I'm fortunate to work with a very talented gruop who loves beer. Onions? WTF? how did that work?

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