Cherries in the mash

[Woolsocks]

I'm hoping to brew a cherry beer for the first time. We're close to a famous cherry-growing area and have access to very fresh, local cherries. I'd love to use them, but adding them to fermenting beer, as people typically do, makes me nervous from a sanitation standpoint.

I've had good luck adding pumpkin to the mash, and then there's no sanitation issue. Anyone done this with other fruit? What were the results?

If I "have to" add the cherries to the fermenting beer, I think I'd go with the aseptic puree from OregonFruit.com mentioned here: http://probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3514

Third option would be add fresh cherries to the mash, pits and all, and if the beer isn't "cherry" enough, add some puree to the fermentation.

Opinions?

[wiredgourmet]

I would recommend against putting them in the mash. It is neat and handy, but the heat of that plus boiling will render them unrecognizable. So many flavour components are volatile. Ever heard of boiled must? And if you're using really good quality ones, what a waste that would be.

Put them in the FV. They can be washed safely in peracetic acid solution then rinsed. Use a concentration appropriate for "soiled kitchen surfaces". I hope you have some means of bashing them up adequately, as the stones, flesh and skins all add different flavours, and of course you want the sugar to ferment out too. Overpitch just a little to make sure your yeast get a quick foothold.

Don't be afraid; use common sense, good sanitation and handling practices, and a little faith. We humans have been making wine for millennia, and to this day no one sterilises their grapes.

[liammckenna]

You can sanitize most berries/fruit with a mixture of salt and vinegar. About a cup of vinegar and a quarter cup of salt in a five gallon bucket are the quantities we use. Put about 3 gallons of this solution into a clean bucket, fill with cherries, which will float. Salt will cause any bugs/worms to let go and sink to bottom of bucket, vinegar will take care of most nasties that may spoil your ferment. Rinse well.

Cooking fruit may render an unfiltrable beer due to the pectins you will activate/release, although pectinase may help you. Never used it meself. Cool processing of fruit will avoid much of this problem.

Also, you may wish to reconsider crushing your cherries. While there are many flavour compounds associated with the stones/pits, there is also a significant amount of cyanogenic compounds. Usually for cherries, we leave them whole when we add them to the fermentor. We then monitor the progress of the fermentation as it penetrates into the fruit. Usually 5-7 days, depending on style, yeast, pitching rate, temperature etc. Once it penetrates to the stone/pit, we leave it for another 48 hours, followed by 24 hours of crash cooling to 0oC and then movie it off the spent fruit.


Pax.

Liam

[Woolsocks]

Liam,

Sounds like a good way to clog your output with cherries -- has that ever happened to you?

[liammckenna]

We have quite the standpipe on our primary fermentors so the clogging issue hasn't hampered us so far. I can see how it might. We usually get a pretty good 'fall' of the fruit through the beer allowing the standpipe access to pretty fruit-free beer above the tank bottoms.

Spent some time at a brewery early in my career that used to rack primary fermentors into aging via the top manway of the fermentor. Basically, it involved starting a siphon through the transfer pump and then sucking the beer off of the tank bottoms by slowly lowering the hose from above into the emptying tank of beer.

Pax.

Liam

[Woolsocks]

So how long can I expect a cherry fermentation to take? I'm thinking I start out the fermentation, let it get really rockin', then add the cherries during high krausen. Then how long do I want to allow the cherries to sit in the beer before I take it off the cherries?

[liammckenna]

Adding the cherries at high krausen works well.

I generally add fruit at about 85% of my attenuation target or when things start to slow. Be warned, however, that this can be near explosive as the fruit provides nucleation points for a lot of dissolved CO2. I've had a few fruity/yeasty showers. Add them slowly (sometimes over a period of hours). Frozen fruit makes it easier.

Sometimes (if the fruit is high sugar content), I will shock the fermentation at the appropriate point by dropping it by about 5oC rapidly, add the cleaned frozen fruit and then let the fermentation recover to it's 'normal' setpoint temperature. With most fruit, the fermentation will jump to life. Cherries are one of those fruit that will make this happen.

Contact time with the fruit depends on a lot of variables. Generally, let pH be your guide. As pH drops from the fruit addition and additional extraction and fermentation, it will stabilize. Beyond this point, it is up to you how long you want to wait. 5-15 days is my range in primary. Have no experience with adding fruit beyond primary.

I just moved abatch of bakeapple or cloudberry wheat into conditioning. When we added the bakeapples at our attenuation target in primary, the fermentation exploded to life and then promply died down to a creep forward. Bakeapples have a significant amount of benzoic acid (less than cranberries and partridgeberries, but still significant) which is , of course, antifungal.

End fermentation took a week longer than expected and pH eventually stabilized at 3.7. We crach cooled and it's now in aging. It's pretty yummy.

Pax.

Liam

[MaltAlchemist]

cherry beer

Remember that previous statement about why you shouldnt put cherries in the mash? Same for primary fermentation. The volitility of the fermentation process will send your cherry flavor and aroma out with the CO2. Thats why you don dryhop during active fermentation. For good flavor and aroma, take 2lbs per bbl puree and boil (or not) and place in fermenter AFTER active fermentation is winding down. There should be significant yeast to handle the sugar and help to naturally carbonate your beer.

[Silkster]

Cherries in beer

I agree that the cherries should not be put into active(primary) fermenting beer.
I add cherries into a secondary fermentation sort of like dry hopping. Here's how I do it.
I take 1.5# of pitted frozen cherries per gallon of beer put them in the kettle. Then, I add just enough water to barely cover the fruit. I bring the kettle up to 160*F and hold for 15 mins. I remove the cherries from the heat cool it down to 70*f and add it to the fermented, cherries and all. Let ferment for an additional week before removing from cherries. I used Bings from my own orchard.

You can add the cherries to any beer you choose, but I added to a light summer ale recipe. The color was like a burgundy wine with just a hint of cherries. A great Cherry Harvest Ale!

I hope this helps!

Mike