Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hops for sale

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hops for sale

    Lots of good posts in the last few days. Well maybe not all good posts, but is in the eye of who is reading it. The days of the high hop prices and shortages are now diminished. In reading the posts I see some good points, some half truths and lots of information that is missing. First let me say, we all paid some very high prices a few years ago that we are all still paying. I will give a view from the Hopunion side as I don’t know exactly how other merchants fared. I will say that we went out of our way to buy expensive hops to cover everyone’s needs. Today I still have some of those expensive hops coming in and I will be happy to take a 50% loss on them. This is called doing business. I did well on some deals and not so good on others. We kept buying hops in anticipation of brewers needing hops in the frenzy they were taking them and then all of the sudden the market stops and even worse, brewers became dealers. This has helped to kill my market for the excess of hops I bought for everyone, but guess what? I still have to pay for them. I don't like to cry because I am a big boy so I am stopping now, but only wanted to make the point that brewers aren't the only ones to suffer from a market that is heading down. A few years ago we had growers quitting on a regular basis because of poor prices and if we are not careful this will happen again. Unfortunately many growers planted when the prices were high in order to get healthy again, but it appears to be short lived.

    What has happened in the market place is the recession has been very severe in some of the same counties overseas that were paying high prices and crying for more hops. We have had crops for two years that are some of the biggest crops ever. In fact around 1,000 acres was not even picked in the US. That is close to half of the British entire acreage. Problem was price, but even bigger was there was no place to store the excess hops, because of the slowdown of moving the 2008 crop out. Now remember we are talking about brewers worldwide that are delaying shipments. Growers are already talking about taking out acreage that was just put in two years ago. Talk about expense!

    Will talk more tomorrow, but running late for a meeting. I can see you have lots to talk about and I have as well. Guys, this is a hard subject and many will never be satisfied, but we are working with our brewers on trying to make things a little better, but boy is it hard to do anything when people have way over contracted. I still don't understand some of the numbers that I see. Everyone made their own numbers on what to buy and as a dealer, we didn't set any minimums nor do I know of any other dealer for that matter. Has been a crazy time for all of us.

    Cheers,
    Ralph Olson
    Hopunion LLC
    Ralph Olson

  • #2
    Hop situations

    Thanks for the response to the many replies on probrewer Ralph. I will speak on behalf of some of the very small brewers out there. When the you know what hit the fan and the shortage began, many brewers, myself included looked at the situation at hand. We were told by all suppliers that the shortage was going to be longer than what it in the end turned out to be. We responded ny getting whatever hops were available at the time after being told that was all we would get for the next several years. Based upon the information we were given we made choices (with faith in our suppliers) and now just a short time later are seeing the consequences of those choices. Many brewers thought about what might happen if they could not get hops, and not just the hops they wanted to keep their recipes intact, hops period! We chose to make some sacrifices in some of our recipes just to stay in business. Now I can't pay someone to take my excess hops. Seems like TOO quick of a turnaround based upon the information we were given when the shortage was beginning. That is my reality and the reality I will be faced with for the next 3-5 years since we were openly encouraged to contract for the next 3-5 years, again with the recommendations that the shortage would last that long.



    Michael Uhrich
    Owner/Brewer/Hop Broker since 2008
    Carter's Brewing
    Billings, Montana

    Comment


    • #3
      Did anyone notice that pretty much everyone got the hops they needed to brew for the whole year during this "shortage"? Some people even bought more than they needed! How is it a shortage if you can buy twice as much as you need? Somebody talked up a good shortage, but couldn't deliver on the actual "shortage" part of it.....but they had followers so............

      Comment


      • #4
        hops

        I am another small brewer who has gotten stuck in a multi-year contract. I don't know much about the workings of the hop industry, but I do have a couple of concerns. It does seem like the hop shortage was somewhat artificial. We had to go to a few different brokers, it is true, but we did get all we needed. Do processors put a fixed markup on a pound of hops or a percentage? The cost of processing hops during this shortage probably didn't change, though the cost of raw ingredients did. If a processor puts a 30% markup on a pound of raw hops to process that into pellets and resell it (I just pulled that figure out of the air), that 30% is obviously going to be alot more money on a pound of hops sold at $22 per pound than it was when sold at $5. Did the processors and brokers do very well out of this, or just the growers? I know the brewers didn't. Just asking.

        jallen

        Comment


        • #5
          Is the shortage really "over?" Or has it just abated a bit (maybe a lot). I realize most varieties are fairly "easy" to come by now, but it seems there are several varieties that are still difficult to impossible to come by.
          Has anyone been able to get Styrian Goldings (off contract) lately? What about Simcoe and Amarillo?
          I guess it all depends on what you are looking for.
          -Lyle C. Brown
          Brewer
          Camelot Brewing Co.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, they're $10 a pound at hop union.

            Comment


            • #7
              Organic hops are still $12 to $20. And that is what I am using mostly. I just didn't understand why breweries were getting rid of '08 just because '09 were in. Aren't they still good if kept under certain conditions? I know they lose acids over time, but can't you calculate and then use more. You have to use them anyway. And once your contract is up, you'd have a years worth of hops and no expense (possibly) Thats why I specifically created by beers with overlooked varieites and I am also getting local farmers to grow my varieties as well, so this won't happen to me in the future.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hops for sale

                Get ready brewing industry!!! The Hop Market is headed for the toilet whether you like it or not....I believe this year there were lots of acreage left on the vine and even some hops that were free if you would harvest them yourself. That is a completely opposite situation than most were told less than 2 years ago.

                Believe it or learn the hard way, the market will crash and we will all be left with some entire yearly contracts that we don't need because we will still be using hops from contracts of years past, but still paying for them!!

                Michael Uhrich
                Carter's Brewing
                Billings, Montana

                Comment


                • #9
                  They're gonna rip'em out

                  I was at a meeting yesterday and someone from the industry was stating that a very significant amount of Willamette hops will be removed. No body runs their business at a loss for long. The acreage is going to get ripped out and it was predicted that in about 10-12 years we'll have another crisis. Oh, the big brewers are now getting out of the 'forward contracting' as the spot market is more lucrative for them at the moment.

                  Us small guys now have to forward contract if we want anything, but the big guys can shove their weight around and get what they want...

                  Funny stuff!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    First post comment.

                    I like your post and want to know your intrigue with the hop market. Are you a broker with inventory or a farmer with acreage? Brewer? Whats the scoop.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Crazy Hops Markets

                      To all,
                      I wanted to build on some of the things that Doug said in his post. One of the difficulties of the hop world is that hops are the ONLY agricultural product made entirely for 1 purpose; brewing beer. All other agricultural products can be used more a number of purposes which evens out supply and demand spikes. Contracts are the only way that brewers and growers can balance demand effectively. Prior to the hop crisis in '07-08, very few brewers were contracted beyond a year, so when the panic began, effect on supply and demand was multiplied by a factor of 3-4X. Now the market is returning to "normal" levels, but some varieties still have issues. This type of spike has happened every 8-10 years for over 100 years based on supply/demand data.
                      At Hopunion, we have the advantage of being grower-owned and our growers supply 60-70% of our needs. We use a similar "return to grower" formula as Doug at Darba, but when our brewers contract significantly beyond our grower production, we have to source from around the world regardless of cost. Like many brewers, we also get locked into these purchase contracts for a number of years. This is complicated by the fact that we only supply craft brewers and the more exotic varieties that help to make your beers so unique from the mega brewers.
                      I agree with Doug, that the only way we can protect supply and fair pricing is thru contracts. Many of the small eclectic varieties (Simcoe/Amarillo/Ahtanum etc) won't be produced in the future without long term grower and brewer contracts. Growers can't continue to produce without some form of contract to gauge demand for their crops.
                      Fortunately (or unfortunately) the largest brewers don't use these varieties, so their production is solely based on the contracts we and other hops dealers give to these growers, which is based on the contracts we have with craft brewers. A tangled web we weave, but the industry has survived these imbalances before and will probably do it again..............
                      Good luck to all,

                      Don Bryant
                      CEO Hopunion LLC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Darba Group
                        Despite everything I've just written, I'm sure some brewer somewhere is going to sign a contract for prices below the cost of production. Maybe they just did last week. If that's their philosophy and they do so knowing the consequences, then it will be hard to feel sorry for that brewery when they're paying crazy prices in a few years.
                        How about the guys who signed contracts last year? Where was the discussion about sustainablility last year? *Ka-ching* goes to *ka-boom*...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hops industry cut itself

                          After trying to reach Hopsteiner directly about their US homepage, I checked out the German page and, sure enough, the Guidelines for 2009 Hops Buying are posted. I never received an answer from the US office why they are not on the US page.

                          Anyway, it's quite interesting, to say the least. Here's a link to the German page - I've linked to the (IMO) decisive page. As you can see, the glut from 2008 continues into this year meaning (more than likely) prices bottoming out. Further into the Guidelines, there is a report about the crop from this year. Roughly translated, they are saying that theoretically the 2009 crop has not even been marketed due to (overestimated?) contracts that the hops suppliers made with breweries - we see this every day with posts about contracted quantities still at the middle man, just waiting to be bought. The way I see it, the hops sellers closed as many contracts as possible and will pay the price in the near future. Due to the high volumes which were harvested this year, this vicious cycle will continue into next year and the following. Result: less farmers planting hops in the VERY near future.

                          Watch out for those warehouse fires...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "but when our brewers contract significantly beyond our grower production, we have to source from around the world regardless of cost."

                            The brewers contracted beyond production because they were scared into it by the hop brokers. Brewers didn't "dream up" the shortage, the brokers sold it to them! What would cause a person to buy 2 or 3 times the amount of hops they normally would, at inflated prices besides someone saying that you won't be able to get them? The brewers wouldn't know that the hops they want and need wouldn't be available unless a broker or top level hop guru specifically told them this!

                            Oh what a tangled web we weave. I could go on for days about this "hop shortage", as could just about every other brewer.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X