Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Home Draft System co2 question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Home Draft System co2 question

    I have just put in a home draft system, a refrigeration converstion kit in my basement. I'm having some trouble setting the co2 pressure on my system.

    I have quite a bit of foam when I draw my beer (I'm using a large american beer 1/4 keg to start out with). I've looked all over the net and find some good information to start out with, but need some more opinions on what to do.

    I've seen equations on the net to get a "balanced" system, which when I put all my numbers in I get a target PSI of about 2. Then I look again of charts for keg temps and they say 10 to 12 psi for 34 to 36 degrees. At 10 psi, my pints are almost all foam and the beer has a flat taste to it.

    One question I have is, I've set my system to about 3 psi, and I draw beer fine with a good foam 1 inch head and and it takes about 4 seconds to draw a 16oz pint, which I believe is about normal. The beer still does not really taste crisp and correct. At 3 psi into the keg, will my beer go flat sooner since it's not at 10 or 12 psi like some of the articals I've read? It's a fresh 1/4 keg and has about 10 or so draws from it.

    Does it just matter that you have co2 for your beer "push" or does the pressure affect the life of fresh beer?

  • #2
    Natas,
    You need to apply the proper pressure to your keg to keep the beer carbonated. 12 psi. is a good place to start for a generic beer at an elevation less than 2000ft.

    Now, in order for your beer to pour good at 12 psi you need the proper resistance and therefore length in your beer line. If you are using 3/16" beer line, a length of four feet should do the trick. Let me know if the diameter of your beer line is different.

    Remember, warm beer foams so keep your fridge at 34-38 degrees. Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've done some more research and this is what I've found. Every forumal I've seen and pluged my numbers into for a balanced system come out way over what I really need.

      Beer line lenght = (pressure - (height *.5) -1) / beer line resistence.

      lenght = 10psi - (1 * .5) - 1 / 2.7

      10 psi is for 2.5 volumes at 35 degrees
      my tap is 1 foot above the keg
      3/16" beer line at 2.7 resistence

      length = 3.1 feet.

      I have 5 feet of 3/16" beer line and from what I've read, if you have more, that's fine, it will just not dispense at the disired pressure.

      The temp in the fridge is a stable 35 degrees. 3psi and 10psi is quite different, and with a difference between 7psi, I'm running the risk of my beer going flat in the keg sooner than later.

      Comment


      • #4
        Natas,
        A couple of things you might want to think about; Your keg would've been pressurized when you bought it, so it will pour at 3psi until you exhaust the pressure in the keg-- Flattening your beer in the process. Five feet of vinyl 3/16" line has approx. 15 psi built in, so your beer should only trickle out at 3psi. Is your regulator reading correctly?

        Make sure your beer isn't breaking out in the line from being at too low of a pressure. With five feet of line, 10 psi. is too low of a pressure. Try 15-17 psi. This will over carbonate your beer so you may need to cut a foot or two off your line. You want two ounce per second with clear beer fillng the facet cylinder. Hope this helps.

        Comment


        • #5
          Do you really want to drink beer that is at 38 degrees? My home draft system is at 45 degrees and pressurized to 15 lbs. Line lenght is about 3.5' but I have not actually measured it. I get some foam, but I am willing to wait the 2 - 3 minutes that it takes to get the foam down.

          By the way, if you have ever been to Germany and seen them pour a draft, you would see them take about 10 minutes to pour your half liter. The reason, they have to wait for the foam to go down in the glass. Sometimes they even pour the foam off (what a waste of good beer!) to they can top off the glass and get it to you sooner.

          The moral? Drink your beer at the right temperature, and if that requires a longer pour, enjoy the process.

          Just my two cents.

          Comment


          • #6
            For a short draw such as you have there is a very simple trick that seems to work in short order. If your beer hose is clear you should be able to see foam and/or bubbles as they form in the line. Starting low, turn the CO2 pressure up one pound at a time until the bubbles start to disappear. This should be your correct dispense pressure for that line and that beer. I know it sounds simple, but it always works for me.
            Ron Downer

            Comment


            • #7
              One other thing to keep in mind is the time it takes for the beer in your keg to absorb the CO2 into solution. For a 5 gal keg of homebrew with no carbonation (right out of the 2ndary), I find that it takes a 2-3 days at 35psi to get it carbonated, then I drop the pressure down to ~5psi, bleed off the keg pressure until I hear the regulator push more gas in, and leave it at that.

              I've looked at the formulas for beer pressure calcs, but never really found them to be as useful as trial and error on the home system. You just need to keep in mind this time delay involved as you make your changes.

              If the beer is foamy but tastes flat, this is the problem.
              S

              Comment


              • #8
                I got some expert advice from the local distributor and this is what I found out and what I did to correct it.

                Big company beer (AB, Miller, Coors, etc) kegs have an internal pressure of about 12psi at 36 degrees. When you drop a degree, you drop 1psi. So at 34 degrees, it has a pressure of 10psi and so on, 32 degrees = 8psi. He asked me what the temp of the beer inside the keg was, and I didn't know. I have a digital thermometer with a probe on the outside of the keg, which was not good enough he said. He said set a glass of water in the fridge and wait 12 to 14 hours and take the temp of the water. That's a good idea on how cold your beer is inside the keg. You can then see how much internal pressure is on your keg. I have 5 feet of 3/16 line from the keg to the tapper and it's all inside my fridge. The tapper is about 1 foot above the keg top and I've had my co2 set to about 8psi.

                He also said to turn off the co2, bleed the keg of co2 (take all the co2 out of it) and untap it. Make sure you have a good tapper and there are no leaks between the shank that pushes the ball on the keg out down so you can get beer from the keg and area that supplies air inside the keg. Make sure all the washers and connections are tight. Also look for cracks in the bottom of the tapper.

                Make sure you close your shutoff valve, open your co2 and set your pressure to the starting pressure. Tap your keg and then open your shutoff valve to put pressure on the keg. After doing this, tap your psi gauge to make sure it settles down and is correct.

                The digital thermometer has a "min and max" for the probe, which I set and my fridge inside varies from 31.8 to 36.5 degrees (I have an older fridge). He said with that flux in temp, it's hard to set your regulator at a good point to get consistent pours all the time. He suggested to start at 10 or 11psi and pour some beer. If it comes out with a good 1 inch head, leave it alone. If it's too foamy and tastes a little flat, lower the psi to 8 or 9psi, let the keg set for 12 hours after opening the door to adjust the temp and pour some more beer. He added with a home brew kit and a older fridge, it can be very tricky to get a great pour every single time with the fridge kicking on and off to make the temp inside the keg rise and lower.

                He also said beer clean glasses can make or break a good beer also. Make sure to wash your glasses with a non-odor soap and then air dry them. I started to hand wash my glasses and it has made a difference on the taste of the beer.

                Beer freezes at 28 degrees, so keep your fridge above that at all times. He also stressed not to freeze your glasses because that takes away from the taste and often produces a "false head" on the beer and it probably wont' have the correct co2 released when you pour it into the glass.

                So I tried all those things and as the 1/4 barrel gets a little less heavy, it's starting to pour correctly (most) of the time. I still have to pour about 4 to 6oz of beer because it's very foamy for the initial pour, but he also stressed that home made keg kits are not the best and unless you want to spend a ton of time and money making it the greatest keg conversion kit, you get what you get out of it.

                Comment

                Working...
                X