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  • possible 1bbl nano, keg carbonating questions

    hey guys, first post. i've been slowly planning out setting up a 1bbl nano brewery (yes the definition of nano, ha) and i'm wondering about what would be the easiest way to carbonate.

    i like the idea of carbing naturally with priming sugar or fresh wort but am wondering if this seems like a reliable and feasible idea. i prime at home with no problem but i would hate the idea of selling a flat keg i see this as a "higher end selling" selling point, and also a good way to give the beer a few weeks to age. also, this would probably be the cheapest way to go about it. is there any issue with the possible sediment in the bottom of the kegs with buyers?

    would anyone recommend against this practice at this small of a level? if so, how would you recommend i force carbonte? i plan on buying plastic kegs and hoping to turn over about 15-20 a month (we'll see about that )

  • #2
    I've been carbing in sixth bbl kegs individually in my 1 bbl nano. I have two 'keezers' to keep the kegs cold and hook them up to a spider of sanke coupers fed by a 100lb (or is it 50, the big tall one) co2 tank. I carb for about 40 hrs @ 34F to get about 2.5 volumes. For us, waiting the extra time to carbonate would suck although it wouldn't tie up the cold space. carbing with co2 is just easier to control and adjust if it's too high or too low IMO.
    _______________________
    Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
    Abingdon, VA

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by burcher
      I've been carbing in sixth bbl kegs individually in my 1 bbl nano. I have two 'keezers' to keep the kegs cold and hook them up to a spider of sanke coupers fed by a 100lb (or is it 50, the big tall one) co2 tank. I carb for about 40 hrs @ 34F to get about 2.5 volumes. For us, waiting the extra time to carbonate would suck although it wouldn't tie up the cold space. carbing with co2 is just easier to control and adjust if it's too high or too low IMO.

      this sounds like what i had in mind, basically just a bigger homebrew set up-for my keezer at home i just have an air distributor and carb at 45 degrees for 48 hrs at about 30 psi. the control and accuracy is a valid point. maybe i'll hold the natural carbing for any special brews i bottle in bombers if you dont mind i'm going to throw a few other questions at you.

      my plan was to maybe pick up large vertical chest freezers and fit plastic conicals inside for a ferm chamber, probably 2 or 3 to start. this would be cheaper than controlling the temp of an entire room and i could also cold crash them and dump off the sediment prior to kegging. do you ferment in 1 bbl or do you blend multiple batches?

      also, what is your turnaround for an average gravity batch (say 1050 or so)? do you age them after carbonated at all?

      Comment


      • #4
        These are pretty cool, of coarse you could only carb 1/2 bbl at a time.

        Joel Halbleib
        Partner / Zymurgist
        Hive and Barrel Meadery
        6302 Old La Grange Rd
        Crestwood, KY
        www.hiveandbarrel.com

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BrewinLou
          These are pretty cool, of coarse you could only carb 1/2 bbl at a time.

          http://breweryparts.com/index.php/ba...ellar-keg.html
          and mighty expensive for a very small nano set up, that is really cool though. i would be moving 1/6 bbls though so i think the above option is sounding pretty good.

          thanks for the quick replies guys, keep em coming !

          Comment


          • #6
            Howdy. I actually run a 1bbl brewhouse, use 1/6 bbl kegs exclusively and naturally carb everything. Priming the kegs isn't a big deal, the bigger issue is the time needed to get the beer conditioned and the space needed to hold the kegs for that time. Because I'm re-fermenting, I'm not comfortable just leaving the primed kegs at ambient temps and I use temperature controlled freezers as fermentation chambers. I generally give it about 3 weeks (to be safe), so that ties up a bunch of space.

            I haven't had much of a problem with carbonation levels, but I pay close attention to the weighing of the sugar and also the SG of the beer that I'm throwing in the primed kegs. For the most part, my lighter colored beers drop pretty completely clear. There's a haze for a pint or two, but the bartenders that are pouring my beer use that as an opportunity to talk about the nano and hand crafted nature of the brew. Mostly, I cask condition because at some point I split off a few batches and force carbed one and naturally carb'd the other and just liked the naturally carb'd beer better, and made the decision to cask condition everything because I liked the result. It also gives me the option of putting it on a beer engine, which is pretty darn cool...

            Kevin McGee

            Healdsburg Beer Co.
            Sonoma County, California
            Kevin McGee

            Healdsburg Beer Company
            Sonoma County, California

            "Because this town sure didn't need another winery."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gordie
              Howdy. I actually run a 1bbl brewhouse, use 1/6 bbl kegs exclusively and naturally carb everything. Priming the kegs isn't a big deal, the bigger issue is the time needed to get the beer conditioned and the space needed to hold the kegs for that time. Because I'm re-fermenting, I'm not comfortable just leaving the primed kegs at ambient temps and I use temperature controlled freezers as fermentation chambers. I generally give it about 3 weeks (to be safe), so that ties up a bunch of space.

              I haven't had much of a problem with carbonation levels, but I pay close attention to the weighing of the sugar and also the SG of the beer that I'm throwing in the primed kegs. For the most part, my lighter colored beers drop pretty completely clear. There's a haze for a pint or two, but the bartenders that are pouring my beer use that as an opportunity to talk about the nano and hand crafted nature of the brew. Mostly, I cask condition because at some point I split off a few batches and force carbed one and naturally carb'd the other and just liked the naturally carb'd beer better, and made the decision to cask condition everything because I liked the result. It also gives me the option of putting it on a beer engine, which is pretty darn cool...

              Kevin McGee

              Healdsburg Beer Co.
              Sonoma County, California
              sounds awesome! i'm a little confused with the first bolded section. so you use temp controlled freezers as ferm chambers... but what do you mean you arent comfortable leaving the beer at ambient temps? are you saying you use freezers to control the kegs temps while carbing/conditioning? i would assume you would want them as steady and as close to 70 degrees as possible. after priming i'm curious to here exactly what you do with the kegs as far as temp control.

              for the second bolded section, i assume you are referring to the gravity of the beer in regards to how long it will take to prime, as in higher gravity=longer carb/condition time.

              i def like the idea of "non filtered, naturally conditioned artisan beer" but i'm def putting consistency at the top of my list.

              Comment


              • #8
                Cap fermentation

                Why not ferment in cornies, and cap fermentation. Your cast-out volume is 35gallons? ferment in 5 cornies, cap fermetation, chill and serve. Is this what you are looking for? I posted on a thread for Zwickel Bier, same information.

                Good luck
                Attached Files

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nohandslance
                  Why not ferment in cornies, and cap fermentation. Your cast-out volume is 35gallons? ferment in 5 cornies, cap fermetation, chill and serve. Is this what you are looking for? I posted on a thread for Zwickel Bier, same information.

                  Good luck
                  i have wondered about that carbing technique... but wrote it off mainly to the amount of yeast and trub that i would imagine is in the bottom. i didnt think bars handled cornies, either?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You would have to rack off from the primary, to secondary, all done with C02 if you can self distribute, just supply the fittings to the draught towers. On this small scale your probably in 'good standing' with the bar owners you will be selling to, you can make some retrofits to the system

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                    • #11
                      i see, so you are not serving from the corny that was the primary, you transfer over to a fresh keg, post carbonation?

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                      • #12
                        yes. and with this technique, you cut out the 10 - 20 days for priming, or bottle conditioning type process.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          so the positive pressure has no ill effects on fermentation? interesting

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Howdy. As far as fermentation chambers, I basically like to keep a close eye on any fermentation temps. I'm in Northern California and the temp fluctuations from day to night can be 30+ degrees. If my brewery goes down to 45 deg overnight, the yeast can drop out or get sleepy and I'll have a hard time getting consistent fermentation. I want predictable volumes of CO2 after a standardized amount of time and the only way I'm confident of doing that is to make sure the fermentation temps are consistent and favorable. I generally settle in around 68 deg F. In terms of checking gravity before moving to a primed keg - I mostly want to make sure that the beer is pretty much at a final gravity before re-priming it. If I move it early, the carbonation will be too high since the CO2 produced by both the continuing fermentation and the priming sugar will be dissolved into solution.

                            Hope that makes sense... anything else?



                            Kevin

                            Healdsburg Beer Co.
                            Sonoma County, California
                            Kevin McGee

                            Healdsburg Beer Company
                            Sonoma County, California

                            "Because this town sure didn't need another winery."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gordie
                              Howdy. As far as fermentation chambers, I basically like to keep a close eye on any fermentation temps. I'm in Northern California and the temp fluctuations from day to night can be 30+ degrees. If my brewery goes down to 45 deg overnight, the yeast can drop out or get sleepy and I'll have a hard time getting consistent fermentation. I want predictable volumes of CO2 after a standardized amount of time and the only way I'm confident of doing that is to make sure the fermentation temps are consistent and favorable. I generally settle in around 68 deg F. In terms of checking gravity before moving to a primed keg - I mostly want to make sure that the beer is pretty much at a final gravity before re-priming it. If I move it early, the carbonation will be too high since the CO2 produced by both the continuing fermentation and the priming sugar will be dissolved into solution.

                              Hope that makes sense... anything else?



                              Kevin

                              Healdsburg Beer Co.
                              Sonoma County, California
                              ah ok, i'm on the same page now... i tend to over think what people are saying if you are using freezers to control temp, and the ambient temp drops, what are you using to heat the chamber? or is the chamber insulation/beer volume enough to keep it from falling?

                              i'm assuming that your brewhouse has some sort of temperature control, or are you using a seperate room to carbonate the kegs and maintain 68?

                              i'm mainly asking out of curiousity now, as i've been talking to a few brewers and the difference in practices is pretty interesting.

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