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  • GABF - any measurable results

    I know that it is still early in the year, but has anybody seen any results from participating in the GABF in terms of sales, market share, or name recognition? I am looking into renting a booth this year and would like to take in ideas on making the experience more successful. What has worked best for those of you that have participated?

    Thanks
    Dan

  • #2
    I don't know if there is a way to really measure it. I think it one of those things that falls into marketing and advertising expenses and as such is very difficult to assign ROI to.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have no firsthand knowledge but I do have this observation:

      I'm not sure why Breweries go to the trouble of doing a booth at the GABF and don't bother entering in the comp or running a Pro-Am. It seems to me that a comp win is a Brewery's best chance at getting a ROI.

      Comment


      • #4
        This thread seems like an appropriate place to put this:

        Given the relative high cost to enter beers in the comp, get a booth, and attend, I was pretty disappointed at the lack of worthwhile feedback that I received from the beer judges on their judging cards. Some of them left zero feedback or reasons for their judgment. While a medal is nice, I was looking more for insight on my beers from some of the "beer authorities" on what could be done to make this or that beer better, truer to the style.

        prost!
        Dave
        Glacier Brewing Company
        406-883-2595
        info@glacierbrewing.com

        "who said what now?"

        Comment


        • #5
          Gabf

          Dave I agree 100 percent about judging notes
          while we are at it here are some notes from the latest beer judging sheets I have gotten I will use just 3 fields off the sheets
          this is from three different judges
          this is for my imperial IPA Alphadog
          Color
          Judge 1 Light golden
          Judge 2 Dark Gold color
          Judge 3 Dark amber
          Balance and Drinkability
          Judge 1 Well Balanced
          Judge 2 to Malty Not enough Hop Character
          Judge 3 to Bitter and Lingering needs more malt to Balance
          Aroma
          Judge 1 Good Balance of Hop and malt Nice Piney hop nose
          Judge 2 Toffee /Malty subtle hops
          Judge 3 Grainy/ Roasty Some hop character

          OK so I read the notes and Go WTF did they even taste the same beer!!!
          all this from a beer that is 5.6SRM 100+ ibu and dry hopped with 9 pounds of hops in a 15BBl batch
          I could Go on but HMMM

          yes I know I could go judge but hey I am an owner brewer here at Laughing Dog and little time to do anything but brewer beer and run my business

          I will add another Note about GABF not to disparage it as this last year I had a better experience than before but there is a direct correlation as to how much money did you spend on a booth (IE did you buy an end cap) as to whether you won a medal, almost every brewery on an end cap won a medal
          Just food for thought about GABF

          I will be going Back, but more for the festival and the fact I can see my distributors there as the come to check out new beers

          Fred
          Laughing Dog

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Laughing Dog
            I will add another Note about GABF not to disparage it as this last year I had a better experience than before but there is a direct correlation as to how much money did you spend on a booth (IE did you buy an end cap) as to whether you won a medal, almost every brewery on an end cap won a medal
            Just food for thought about GABF
            I don't think that is true. I know another brewery that entered (2009) over twenty beers (that's alot of money) and had a booth, although not end cap and they won no medals at all. Their beer is well known, very tasty, and distibuted across various states. I do not think the BA plays games like that. In 2006 I entered only two beers (previous brewery gig) and won two medals, so I doubt there is financial bias going on.

            Beaux Bowman
            Black Raven Brewing

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Laughing Dog
              I will add another Note about GABF not to disparage it as this last year I had a better experience than before but there is a direct correlation as to how much money did you spend on a booth (IE did you buy an end cap) as to whether you won a medal, almost every brewery on an end cap won a medal
              Just food for thought about GABF
              Fred,

              Having judged there 6 times, I can vouch there is virtually no way that can occur. The judging is completely blind, and we at the judging table don't have a clue as to brewery name or even whether the beer is on the floor at all. All we get is a set of plastic cups (no look at any bottle/growler/keg) with labels. The labels give a randomly generated entry number (which changes for each round, regardless of the beer) and style designation. For some of the wilder styles (fruit, spice, wood aged, etc), we also get a description of the beer, as provided by the entering brewery. This past info is put on the label as a series of abbreviations.

              Chris Swersey takes the integrity of the competition VERY seriously. We are not allowed to have a cell phone on during the judging session at all, including text, and no judge is allowed anywhere near the staging room where all the beers are sorted and poured. Of course, no judge can judge in a category that any brewery he is associated with has an entry in. In 2008, when I won a Silver in the Pro-Am, I was not yet a Pro-Brewer, and I could not judge in ANY category that Starr Hill had entered, since my two professional brewdays that year had been at Starr Hill. Made for some added coordination between us since I had no idea what they were entering until I asked Mark Thompson (owner). Of course, he was hesitant to tell me until he knew why I needed to know.

              After we have finished all judging rounds (Judging starts with a calibration session Tuesday evening, then we judge 9 AM to 12:30 PM Weds, Thurs and Fri, as well as 1:30-5:00 PM on Weds and Thurs), we don't know what beers or what breweries have won until the medal session on Saturday, same time the rest of you find out. I have been surprised to learn what beer we gave what medal to many times.

              As for your listing of comments, I am at a bit of a loss here. Some of the explanation may well be what beer the judge had before yours. If a judge tastes a 150+ IBU IIPA with very little crystal malt, he may react very differently to your beer than the judge who just had a 75 IBU IIPA with 3 different types of crystal and Munich added to it. We are encouraged to randomize the beers we are presented, IOT give each beer several different placements in tasting order. Matzo or French bread and Water can only go so far to cleanse the palate between such strong flavored beers.

              All the judges make notes and come to ~80% of their conclusions independently, and discussion does not begin until every judge in the flight has finished all beers in that flight, which can lead to some different impressions, but when I find myself 180 degrees out of phase with the other judges I will go back and take another sip and make notes appropriate. I will even state that my perceptions are different from the other judges, when appropriate.

              Judging really is hard, and that is not just a joke. I have been a BJCP judge since 1986, and am a Master Judge. I have had judging sessions, both homebrew and commercial that border on downright exhausting. There are also times that you would really rather not try that beer you just took a whiff of (very rarely in the GABF, but not unheard of). Fortunately, there are also times when you really wish you knew what beer you just tried so you could buy some for yourself later.

              Judging also makes you a better brewer, IMHO. It gives you a chance to try other beers, in a structured environment, and you can get a good feel for what works best and what doesn't for each style.

              -HTH
              -Lyle C. Brown
              Brewer
              Camelot Brewing Co.

              Comment


              • #8
                The comments I've received ditto Laughing Dog, even on gold medal winners. I have never experienced ANY measurable increase in the till from winning a medal. FWIW, first medal in 1993, last in 1999 and that was the last time I enetered anything. Too much of a money project, I'd rather buy more tools for the brewery.
                Cheers & I'm out!
                David R. Pierce
                NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
                POB 343
                New Albany, IN 47151

                Comment


                • #9
                  what I was trying to convey and expand upon is what Dave said that the Judging notes were not helpful
                  in most cases the notes we get back are horrible with nothing written on them just check boxes checked , or that they are way out of sync with each other, I keep all my notes and when I want a good laugh go back and read some of them , and just so everyone Knows I am not just sour grapes ( or is that Lacto infected Beer) I have a case of medals from some pretty big competitions. I have found that while they are a good ego boost they don’t seem to help sell beer one bit so therefore the ROI is nil to me

                  I have no doubt that judging is hard , and appreciate those that do take the time and extra effort to go judge the 2500 + beers presented. At some time in the future I will take the BJCP test and Maybe come help or at least come Steward for the event as I am sure it will give me insight into how things run

                  as for my statements about the breweries on end caps I did not say all won a medal “ I said most”, of the 23 Breweries at the 2009 GABF with End caps 17 won medals some multiple, it is most likely coincidence, but for some first time breweries it may seem otherwise, unless they have privy to the inner workings of how things work ( such as you have)

                  and as Forrest Gump would say `` ANDTHAT’S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT “

                  Fred
                  Laughing Dog

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The comments is one major difference between GABF judging and BJCP judging (homebrew).
                    There are 2 reasons (that I know of):
                    1. We are pushed for time much more at GABF than any of the homebrew comps I have judged, even the Nat'l Homebrew Comp.
                    2. The BJCP strongly emphasizes maximizing feedback to the brewer. Some of that is because we know the entrant is an amateur. Some homebrewers don't know how good or bad their beer is, and enter specifically to find out. Some even enter beer they know is bad, with the purpose of finding out what is wrong. Therefore, feedback, and suggestions for improvement are strongly encouraged. I think the GABF has more of the attitude that entrants are all pros and we almost "dare not" make suggestions for improvement. At least not in any depth. I know I always keep in the back of my mind that someone is making a living with this beer when I judge at the GABF, and that is not true for homebrew. Likewise, if your beer of style X is not quite within the parameters for the style, but is selling well, who am I as a judge to tell you it is too hoppy/too malty/too strong, whatever. In the case of homebrew, adherence to a set of style is just about the only standard we can use, since no one is selling it. (I have overstated both sides of things somewhat for emphasis and clarity.)

                    Still, I know that Chris likes judges that give a lot of feedback, and those judges tend to get invited back more often. The important part is the tone and the attitude of the feedback. I hope any judge sheets you got back from me had sufficient feedback to be meaningful and useful.
                    -Lyle C. Brown
                    Brewer
                    Camelot Brewing Co.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'll preface my remarks by saying that my professional marketing experience rivals my professional brewing experience (0 hrs vs 1 batch).

                      Your ROI on serving beer at a booth at the GABF begins months before you go. That's when you tell all of your customers that you are going. You might be surprised how many of your customers actually attend.

                      You send out releases about it, you blog about it. Perhaps you have a Pro-Am or have a contest in which you provide a customer the all-desirable brewers pass. This is all about what you make of it.

                      If you plan on entering the comp, you announce your brew day for each of your entries. You have your servers tell people each time that you order it that, "this beer will be traveling to Denver."

                      Should you be fortunate enough to medal, obviously you have something to talk about for an entire year.

                      Hell, I might even market the inconsistent and blank judging sheets. People love to hear about how much smarter they are then professional judges.

                      Thanks, I'll let the pro's chime in now.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        just received judging papers back from the world beer cup.
                        very similar to the posted results.....judging was all over the board!
                        it does take a good beer to advance in the judging rounds but we have to also remember that it takes some luck too - with the judges you pull.
                        (and lets not forget how not all breweries packaging is created equal, especially with the world beer cup where beers are sitting around for months before judging)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          as usual, great feedback. unfortunately, my decision hasn't been made any easier. it sounds a bit more like a nice to have than a need to have in the marketing budget at this point in time.

                          have i ever mentioned what a great group of guys there are on this forum?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think the subjective nature of beer judging in general shoots a whole in the concept of "award winning beer". Like Laughing Dog and others stated, you get completely conflicting results from "Best beer on the planet" to "worst thing I've ever tasted." This goes for anything, cooking, artwork, etc.. It probably doesn't hurt to have medals hanging on the the wall. Sam Adams hammers on it as a marketing tool, hell even equipment brokers will tout, "Award winning beers produced on this system." In the end its all the same, for every amber ale there is another across the country just like it and they are both great beers. Its up to the brewery to connect with its constituents which is what craft is about IMO. I would try it once if one so minded, but its money better spent elsewhere.

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