Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

tartness/acidity in pale ales???

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • tartness/acidity in pale ales???

    I'm having a recurring issue with pale ales. Not with hefeweizen, just pale ale. Beers come out fine at first and then start to get acidic, what I would guess might be lactic acidity. ALso happens, to a lesser degree, in my ipa which has more crystal but still pretty light in srm. I'm wondering if my mash pH is lower in these beers as I have pretty hard/alkaline water and that may explain why darker beers are ok. My methods for measuring pH don't allow me to be very accurate, I just know it's always in the low 5's and don't detect differences with beer color. Alternatively, I'm wondering if maybe I'm getting lacto or other spoilage somewhere and it is just more apparent in a light malt, hoppy beer (i.e., not a hef with a big yeast flavor). I have thought about using 5.2 or acidulated malt. Comments?? Suggestions??
    _______________________
    Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
    Abingdon, VA

  • #2
    I would recommend measuring pH at all steps. Mash, sparge, pre-boil, post boil, post fermentation, and then again you can test your final product after letting the CO2 out of solution. You can get a cheapo pH meter for like 50 bucks that would work fine for this, just be sure to calibrate well with buffer soln before use.
    Andrew Godley
    Parish Brewing Co.
    Broussard, Louisiana

    Comment


    • #3
      An infection could be carrying over with the yeast you crop (if any).
      Roger Greene

      Comment


      • #4
        I was wondering if the cheaper meters were any good.

        It's not a yeast issue. I'm not reusing but beer tastes fine through the process, even into the keg. It doesn't start 'changing' until kegged.
        _______________________
        Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
        Abingdon, VA

        Comment


        • #5
          Do you filter? If so, do you also filter the wheat?
          Roger Greene

          Comment


          • #6
            No. and no
            _______________________
            Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
            Abingdon, VA

            Comment


            • #7
              Generally if you have an acid-producing infection, you will have a corresponding increase in haze.

              Do recognize that increasing carbonation in beer makes it more acidic.

              Is it possible that your beers were always that acidic but as the yeast settles out, the acidity seems more pronounced?

              Comment


              • #8
                acidic

                Originally posted by burcher
                I'm having a recurring issue with pale ales. Not with hefeweizen, just pale ale. Beers come out fine at first and then start to get acidic, what I would guess might be lactic acidity. ALso happens, to a lesser degree, in my ipa which has more crystal but still pretty light in srm. I'm wondering if my mash pH is lower in these beers as I have pretty hard/alkaline water and that may explain why darker beers are ok. My methods for measuring pH don't allow me to be very accurate, I just know it's always in the low 5's and don't detect differences with beer color. Alternatively, I'm wondering if maybe I'm getting lacto or other spoilage somewhere and it is just more apparent in a light malt, hoppy beer (i.e., not a hef with a big yeast flavor). I have thought about using 5.2 or acidulated malt. Comments?? Suggestions??
                Are you using any water minerals?
                Whats your BU (or IBU) level?

                Cheers
                Fred

                Comment


                • #9
                  brian, though I don't filter the pale beers do seem to increase in haze a bit. I think as the yeast settles they do get more acidic. At least the pales.

                  Fred, no minerals but water is heavy in calcium carbonate and a little Mg (limestone bedrock). IBUs 50 to 100 and I'm using a ton of late hops instead of dry hopping.
                  _______________________
                  Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
                  Abingdon, VA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If there is no real difference between the processing of your whet bear and pale ales, one possible cause could be the autolysis of your yeast. Depending on the extent of autolysis, off flavors and haze can be formed. Boulton and Quain, in Brewing Yeast and Fermentation, describe the off flavor as "yeast bitten". The haze can be caused by cell wall material. The autolysis of the yeast depends on many factors, and undoubtedly depends on the yeast strain. One sure sign of autolysis is the loss or reduction in head retention due to the proteinase A released by the yeast. I also I have been told, although not sure, that autolysis is also marked by a rise in pH.
                    Roger Greene

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Crosby&Baker sells a decent Milwaukee Ph meter with separate temp and Ph probe for about $100. Ive been using it for years. They also sell sachets of calibration fluid.
                      Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
                      tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
                      "Your results may vary"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Seconding autolysis

                        Chris,

                        The increase in haze is worrisome...check your final pH before bottling and check the pH of the same beer in one of the bottles that later develops the acid bite you're describing. My understanding is that yeast autolysis will actually raise pH--which you wouldn't think would make something more "acidy" tasting--but that's not the way taste always works!
                        Unfiltered beer can be awesome, no doubt, but tossing in a 40 x 40 p&f filter at the end of your process may also solve some stability issues. If you want to shoot up here for a filter day, just drop me a line. We don't filter our 750mL brands that get 100% bottle refermentation, but I'm a big 'ol filter fan for all our other brands!

                        Taylor Smack
                        Blue Mountain Brewery

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rock and Roll, Mr. Smack!

                          I've had the bandaidy autolysis in other beers and that might be related to our process (i.e., not filtering). I'm wondering if it might be the same dealio just in a different direction.

                          We have a DE filter for the new brewery.
                          _______________________
                          Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
                          Abingdon, VA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Are you meaning that the acidity seems to appear in the bottles? A very simple test would be to pasteurize a few bottles and follow them side by side with the un-pasteurized mates. This could be done in a cooking pot on a stove or similar if you don't have a fancy lab.
                            This would tell you if it was caused by a living creature. Besides, if it were an autolysis issue, the heat would accentuate that and it would be obvious.
                            To compound matters, lactic acid producing creatures thrive on the nutrients of yeast autolysis. The best thing you could do to address autolysis, assuming bottles aren't abused, is to have healthy yeast.
                            Last edited by Moonlight; 10-14-2010, 10:10 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hmmm. Well, I'm only kegging. I haven't streaked my kegs so I can only assume they're clean. I'm using fresh pitches of US-05 and WB-06. Don't have the problems with S-04. I'm guessing I may have a little lacto in my fermenters, they're plastic and have probably passed their prime having gone through 30 or so ferments each. I notice a slight white floc floating on top of the pale ales I don't notice in other beers (in the fermenters, prior to kegging). Again, this problem will hopefully go away once the new system is up and running.
                              _______________________
                              Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
                              Abingdon, VA

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X