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View Full Version : What do you call a lead brewer that refuses to scrub a floor?



BrewHilo87
10-16-2012, 10:03 PM
Hello all,

We've recently had a brewer promoted to lead at our brewery and now he refuses to scrub a single floor or wash a parts bucket. Any thoughts?

Bierkoenig
10-16-2012, 10:14 PM
What do you call a lead brewer that refuses to scrub a floor?

Fired.

*************

jfulton
10-17-2012, 05:16 AM
A bad example and a management nightmare.:eek:

Head brewer must lead by example. I've heard of several head brewers that expect more out of everyone but themselves; there are constantly job openings at their breweries.

Larry Doyle
10-17-2012, 06:28 AM
He should lead by example. So make an example out of him and fire his azz.:D

Beer_Nut
10-17-2012, 07:42 AM
What?? No punchline. I thought this was a joke thread!


Seriously though, any good boss leads by example. If you keep him in a management spot you will have issues, as the rest of your brewery staff will most likely not respect him or his orders.

Larry Doyle
10-17-2012, 08:11 AM
He felt doing floors was beneath him.:p

Scott M
10-17-2012, 08:30 AM
Funny, LD!

I remember visiting Rogue in Newport, Oregon and seeing John Mayer dragging brewing hose through the brewery. "Everybody works", he said.

schlosser
10-17-2012, 09:38 AM
Although 'Fired' was my first thought, I guess it depends whether he refuses to do it or if he is delegating the responsibilities. A lead or head brewer should be managing the bigger picture and should have the people he's managing take care of the day to day ops. Doesn't mean he shouldn't jump in and do whats needed, but he also shouldn't be doing the menial tasks when there is the big picture items that need to get done.

As I tell everyone that works or has worked for me if they make a face when I'm telling them to do a particularly unglamorous duty in the brewery, "Yes it sucks but not anything I haven't done in the past and won't do again in the future." You need to lead by example, but the fact that he was promoted probably means that he was doing a very good job of doing all the tasks of a brewer prior to the promotion.

To summarize:

Refuse b/c its beneath him - FIRED
Delegating b/c he's doing big picture items - Managing

Cheers,
Dave

brewmaster 2011
10-17-2012, 09:51 AM
With experience in German Breweries the head brewer/Braumeister job is to manage the brewery make sure everyone is doing what they are suposed to do. With that said as long as the floor is getting scrubed it shouldn't matter if he tells some one else to do it.

Larry Doyle
10-17-2012, 09:57 AM
Some managers fail to manage.They can't manage because they are too busy doing everyone else's job. So the "manager" walks around with an overflowing work bucket while subordinates sit on their asses with partially filled work buckets. He/she might like to think that they are leading by example but, in reality, work is not getting done because they are unable to delegate.

Could it be that this recently promoted individual has gotten it right from the start? And could it be that the complainer is someone whose work bucket now holds a decent day's work?:confused:

GlacierBrewing
10-17-2012, 11:00 AM
Hello all,

We've recently had a brewer promoted to lead at our brewery and now he refuses to scrub a single floor or wash a parts bucket. Any thoughts?


My first thought is "prima donna". Could be this individual does not understand his full job description (having those things written down untangles many confusing days!) or others in the brewery do not understand his full job description.

Having said that: I am the founder, president, board member, head brewer, packaging lead, head cellar, toilet scrubber, floor sweeper, tasting room worker, compliance officer, web designer, graphic designer, social media lead, forklift mechanic, QA/QC lead, and official beer taster of my brewery.
You HAVE GOT to be willing to do whatever is necessary to make your brewery tick.

...my two cents

Prost!
Dave

Beer_Nut
10-17-2012, 11:57 AM
He felt doing floors was beneath him.:p

Ha...nice one

Natrat
10-17-2012, 05:35 PM
I never ask anyone to do anything I am not prepared to do myself.

Is he using his floor scrubbing time to polish the kettle? Ok.

Is the floor still dirty? Not ok.

Show him this thread, and see what he says.

Nat

liammckenna
10-18-2012, 10:35 AM
Ha...nice one

He should be 'pun'ished for that one.

Pax.

Liam

Larry Doyle
10-18-2012, 11:04 AM
Hey, I resemble that!

Ted Briggs
10-19-2012, 09:41 AM
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/leadership_traits.htm

Erdinger2003
11-24-2012, 02:59 PM
He felt doing floors was beneath him.:p

Then he doesn't want to brew, he wants to be in charge of something. Someone else said this earlier, there are many people willing to take his place (me included). No shortness of people who are passionate about brewing.

Selkirk
11-26-2012, 04:09 PM
The key for me is "refuses".

If I've asked someone to do something and it remains undone, they will soon be separated from the payroll.

That said, you can fire everyone but then you have to do everything yourself.

Cheers.

Gunrunner
11-27-2012, 07:13 PM
Insubordination. Fired. I would never ask anyone to do a job that I would not do myself. If he can not do the job then he can not ask others to do it either. Get rid of him before he becomes a bigger problem.

LuskusDelph
11-27-2012, 11:17 PM
My first thought is "prima donna"...

My first thought was "pompous a$$"...but "prima donna" covers it pretty well too.

Everyone is replaceable and there are probably plenty of people who would line up to take over his job.
After all, it's not really a secret anymore that making beer is fairly easy. Finding an audience for it in a glut of choice is the challenging part; It hardly matters who's sweating over the kettle.
:eek:

nateo
12-23-2012, 07:50 AM
Could be this individual does not understand his full job description (having those things written down untangles many confusing days!) or others in the brewery do not understand his full job description.


Definitely get that in writing. Your job, as his manager, is to manage him. That includes making expectations explicit, as well as consequences for poor performance. Don't set him up for failure by having nebulous or capricious expectations. A job description should be flexible to the business' needs, but if you keep dumping more and more water in his bucket, he'll resent you and do a bad job.

But, if you've been clear all along about what the job requires, and his work-load is what you agreed on, then discipline him.

kai
12-24-2012, 05:50 AM
I keep doing that thing every time I open this thread, the one where you put your finger halfway up, open your mouth and close it again.

Ultimately, I keep coming back to one thing: What does a 'lead brewer' do? More specifically, what does this lead brewer do? Is he there on the floor making wort in the brewhouse, or is he a "swivel chair brewer", pushing mice and keyboards (nobody does pencils anymore)?

If he has to spend most of his day in a chair with a phone glued to his ear working his way through the inbox, then he likely has more important things to do and his salary probably does not justify idling away with a parts bucket or a floor.

If he is on the factory floor, then he needs to pull his finger out of his arse.

is_wiz
01-04-2013, 07:24 AM
unemployed

Greenbushguy
06-02-2014, 08:00 PM
Fired.

*************

You took the words right outta my mouth! hahaha

nateo
06-03-2014, 03:28 AM
Everyone is replaceable and there are probably plenty of people who would line up to take over his job.

That attitude is the exact of opposite of the attitude the most successful companies have. I know I wouldn't want to work for someone who thinks that way.

magnemelhus
06-03-2014, 06:45 AM
Does he actually refuse or does he delegate? I didn't see a clear answer here, but there is definitely a difference between passing the buck and flat out defying your boss. We are having some issues with employees getting too comfortable and bucking authority on grounds of seniority/unwillingness to perform 'menial' tasks. As a lead brewer who just got done fixing/filling kegs and is about to wash the cellar floor, this attitude does not hold with me.

That said, washing the floor is not as bad as shoveling week-old spent grain... another lovely part of this job :-/

KFBass
06-28-2014, 09:00 PM
As a lead brewer who just got done fixing/filling kegs and is about to wash the cellar floor

hey man we all do it. I tell my guys if you see me (as head brewer) cleaning kegs, its means they're doing a great job. Trust your guys.

CharlosCarlies
06-30-2014, 07:13 PM
That attitude is the exact of opposite of the attitude the most successful companies have. I know I wouldn't want to work for someone who thinks that way.

Thank you...I'm glad someone else thinks the same way. Yes, everyone is "replaceable", but that doesn't mean it's always for the good of the company. There are some very, very talented people and I've always been of the opinion that they should be compensated well for it. On top of that, turnover is expensive.

To me it's like saying Lebron James is replaceable. While technically true, it would be a terrible way to think about running a pro basketball team.

nateo
07-01-2014, 01:23 AM
On top of that, turnover is expensive.

I agree, and I don't think most managers appreciate how expensive turnover is, or how demoralizing that attitude is for employees (and expensive, in terms of reduced productivity and wasted potential).

In the last small business I was running, my senior business partners thought I was "replaceable." Everyone is "replaceable" but at what price? They've hired two full-time and two part-time people to try to replace me, and they had to hire an external accountant as well. So their payroll is three times as large now, plus the accountant's bills. They still hire me for consulting from time to time for some stuff too. I probably would've stayed with them full-time if they didn't have such a terrible attitude towards their employees.

Labor markets aren't perfect, so you may not be able to hire the people you need when you need them. It's not easy, especially for a small business with limited ability to pay for talent, to attract highly-skilled people.

mashpaddled
07-08-2014, 09:37 PM
The answer here depends on a number of details. Is this lead brewer managing brewers/brewing or doing the actual brewing? Were expectations set that this kind of work is part of the job? Is the lead brewer's salary an efficient use of resources to scrub a floor? Does the lead brewer have a medical condition that would make it unreasonable to expect him to scrub the floor? Why did the lead brewer refuse to scrub the floor? There are a number of very good reasons why the lead brewer may have declined to personally scrub the floor at that time but alternatively there are just as many good reasons why it was inappropriate for the lead brewer to decline a directive from his or her superior.

CharlosCarlies
09-18-2014, 08:11 PM
There are a number of very good reasons why the lead brewer may have declined to personally scrub the floor at that time but alternatively there are just as many good reasons why it was inappropriate for the lead brewer to decline a directive from his or her superior.

Agreed. Sometimes it's simply an issue of respect and how the request was framed which is why a third party won't be able to answer this question.