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  • Bottle sales for a 1 BBL nano

    Hi, I am currently working on the financials for my nano. I have a bottled series of special beers that tend to be very high in alcohol, that I plan on selling for off-premise and to small specialty stores. I am planning on 16 oz bottles as the package size. I would self-distribute to stores and sell them at $6.50 a bottle, and would expect them to retail for $10 a bottle. I like the idea of 16 oz bottles because I would have to charge so much for a 22 ounce that I don't think as many people would buy my beer, and I'd like to to be accessible.

    I also think some area restaurants would be interested in buying them. Would the same prices and bottle size work? 16 ounces of 9% beer is a lot. Many area restaurants will offer 22 ounce bottles, but I have never seen 16. Any thoughts?

    Sorry if this is a noobish question, I am a noob.

  • #2
    Just a thought: as a 1 bbl brewery, you are going to need every dollar of revenue. Sell them yourself and keep the entire margin. But, if you insist on doing as planned, a $10 16oz beer is quite aggressive, as you probably know most high-end 22s are max $9.99. Depends a lot on your quality if they will move.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by einhorn View Post
      Just a thought: as a 1 bbl brewery, you are going to need every dollar of revenue. Sell them yourself and keep the entire margin. But, if you insist on doing as planned, a $10 16oz beer is quite aggressive, as you probably know most high-end 22s are max $9.99. Depends a lot on your quality if they will move.
      I make primarily Belgian and American beers. With Belgian beers, 12 bucks for a 22 ounce is pretty normal. Also, all my bottled series beers are made with local ingredients. Elderberry quad, basil saison, sour barrel-aged tripel, etc. Also, my brewery is in the richest county in the U.S. Not trying to brag, I'm far from rich, haha. It's just that $5 a pint and up is perfectly normal here. RR sells for $50 a bottle here, and people actually buy it.

      The thing is I am just really worried about the sales forecast. I have a really great location, 896 sq feet in the best location in the entire county. Maybe another nanobrewer can chime in here. I am forecasting 1500 units in on-premise pint sales a month from day one. I don't sell food at all, but I'm right next to two really great restaurants. Is this a realistic goal?

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      • #4
        I'd say your goal of 1500 units per month depends on how many hours you're open a day, how many days a week, and how many people you expect to come in each day, how many "turns" you expect in a day, and how much you expect each individual person to consume or purchase. Have you performed that breakdown and know what it means for a daily goal? And then obviously a weekend will be busier than a Tuesday, etc... and you need to take that into account. Hope this helps.

        EDIT: also, it depends on what you assess your complimentary pours/spillage/waste factor to be. In a 1bbl operation, that would likely be higher relative to a larger one since a gallon lost means more versus 31 than it does with 93, etc.
        Last edited by ChesterBrew; 12-21-2012, 06:20 AM.
        Kevin Shertz
        Chester River Brewing Company
        Chestertown, MD

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        • #5
          Bottle Sales

          Couple of questions....is this going to be your only job? Do you have other employment other then the brewery? Are you going to have help with brewing and sales?
          Cheers!
          -Alan

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          • #6
            As far as bottle sales go, I guess you will just have to give it a try. It is always easier to go down in price than up. If you can move them out of your own location, I would highly recommend that rather than selling at other places, at least from the start. It give people a reason to visit you, and with a 1bbl system, you will really need every dollar you can keep.

            As far as 1500 pints is concerned, Chester is right, you need to break it down. 1500 pints/month means 50 pints sold EVERY DAY. Don't kid yourself about this, find out what other places are selling on beer per day. And with 900 ft2, what is your max occupancy?

            And just to augment that, if you do end up selling 1500 pints per month, and assuming you have a 1 bbl brew system, that means you will need a minimum of 6 fermenters, with decent aging (depending on style) 2-3 more. Including the cold room to store the kegs, will 900 ft2 really be enough?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by einhorn View Post
              As far as bottle sales go, I guess you will just have to give it a try. It is always easier to go down in price than up. If you can move them out of your own location, I would highly recommend that rather than selling at other places, at least from the start. It give people a reason to visit you, and with a 1bbl system, you will really need every dollar you can keep.

              As far as 1500 pints is concerned, Chester is right, you need to break it down. 1500 pints/month means 50 pints sold EVERY DAY. Don't kid yourself about this, find out what other places are selling on beer per day. And with 900 ft2, what is your max occupancy?

              And just to augment that, if you do end up selling 1500 pints per month, and assuming you have a 1 bbl brew system, that means you will need a minimum of 6 fermenters, with decent aging (depending on style) 2-3 more. Including the cold room to store the kegs, will 900 ft2 really be enough?
              Yep, my sales forecast peaks at 1500 pints per month, but 1000 should be about normal. The space is small but I do have some very nice outdoor seating.

              This will be my only job, but I'm only 25 and I can survive on very low income.

              If I am only brewing 1-2 times per week, why not brew more and sell bottles to local stores? I'll definitely sell bottles at the brewery too, of course.

              Comment


              • #8
                You are about the same sq footage as we are. We have 980 sq feet. 3 bbl brewhouse, 2 3-bbl fermenters, tanks to store our RO water. all that in about 200 sq feet of brewing/fermenting space. We have about 100 sq feet of cold room storage with brite tanks and serving kegs in there. We are serving about 1100 pints on average a month, not counting taster flights, growler fills (both 32 and 64 ounce fills). We are keeping up, that is not good enough. We would like to get the pipeline full so we are not pushing beer out earlier than it should so we can have beer on the board to serve.

                For you to be at 1/3 of where we are you won't have extra beers to sell in bottles,kegs etc. We are expanding our brewing and cold room storage to 600 sq feet of brewing space, and 300 sq feet of cold room at another location across the street from our tasting room. Our business plan was to have bottles to go, and kegs in some bars and restaurants, but why should I have profit margin tied up in labels and bottles, caps, when I can serve the same beers on tap and get full retail dollars for it? Once we expand and hit our full production we will add 2 more fermenters, more likely 7 barrel and double batch into those.

                How many fermenters do you have? How many brite tanks? How big is your cold room storage? Employees working while you brew? When will you brew? It is hard to be open and brewing at the same time if you are the only one working. Trust me I did that once! ONCE! Now I get in at 5am on Sundays and brew until noon or 1pm.

                This may not answer your question, but this is my experience. 1 BBL (IMHO) is too small, I wish we went bigger, but our building was our restriction in bigger equipment. Let me know if I can answer any questions.

                Aaron
                Cambria Beer Company

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                • #9
                  I was thinking about your set up while writing this Aaron. Anyone dreaming the 1BBL set-up just has to experience it to be a believer, I guess.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cambria Beer Co View Post
                    You are about the same sq footage as we are. We have 980 sq feet. 3 bbl brewhouse, 2 3-bbl fermenters, tanks to store our RO water. all that in about 200 sq feet of brewing/fermenting space. We have about 100 sq feet of cold room storage with brite tanks and serving kegs in there. We are serving about 1100 pints on average a month, not counting taster flights, growler fills (both 32 and 64 ounce fills). We are keeping up, that is not good enough. We would like to get the pipeline full so we are not pushing beer out earlier than it should so we can have beer on the board to serve.

                    For you to be at 1/3 of where we are you won't have extra beers to sell in bottles,kegs etc. We are expanding our brewing and cold room storage to 600 sq feet of brewing space, and 300 sq feet of cold room at another location across the street from our tasting room. Our business plan was to have bottles to go, and kegs in some bars and restaurants, but why should I have profit margin tied up in labels and bottles, caps, when I can serve the same beers on tap and get full retail dollars for it? Once we expand and hit our full production we will add 2 more fermenters, more likely 7 barrel and double batch into those.

                    How many fermenters do you have? How many brite tanks? How big is your cold room storage? Employees working while you brew? When will you brew? It is hard to be open and brewing at the same time if you are the only one working. Trust me I did that once! ONCE! Now I get in at 5am on Sundays and brew until noon or 1pm.

                    This may not answer your question, but this is my experience. 1 BBL (IMHO) is too small, I wish we went bigger, but our building was our restriction in bigger equipment. Let me know if I can answer any questions.

                    Aaron
                    Cambria Beer Company
                    Thanks for the great info, Aaron. I am a little bit confused, though. If you are selling 1100 pints a month, how are you struggling to keep up with demand? That's only 3 or so batches per month, correct?

                    The system I have is built off theelectricbrewery.com and will be a real breeze to work with. It's semi-automated so I can be doing other things while I brew. I will have four beers on tap. The only one that requires any aging is my Belgian dubbel. My Belgian single can be ready in one week. I plan on purchasing two 2 bbl fermenters and four 1 bbl fermenters. I don't have any brite tanks. I will wheel my fermenters into my cold room, keg, and serve.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CrookedRun View Post
                      Thanks for the great info, Aaron. I am a little bit confused, though. If you are selling 1100 pints a month, how are you struggling to keep up with demand? That's only 3 or so batches per month, correct?

                      The system I have is built off theelectricbrewery.com and will be a real breeze to work with. It's semi-automated so I can be doing other things while I brew. I will have four beers on tap. The only one that requires any aging is my Belgian dubbel. My Belgian single can be ready in one week. I plan on purchasing two 2 bbl fermenters and four 1 bbl fermenters. I don't have any brite tanks. I will wheel my fermenters into my cold room, keg, and serve.

                      We brew twice a month, letting time & temperature do some work for us. Our cold room is our choke point, but maybe it is how many beers we want on tap at a given time. we have 5 house beers with others rotating in. On paper everything looked great. We had more than enough room until we started installing equipment and then that damned third dimension of object sucked up alot of the space we thought we would have. The brew and cold rooms got really small really quick, but we adapted and made it work for us, which is what you will have to do. Our system is semi-automated as well, and I sure can't feel confident about serving customers and making sure that the mash pH is accurate, or the temp is holding steady, or the run off is balanced etc etc. It is a lot of work, which i really enjoy.

                      Brite tanks would make your serving and kegging more consistent. If we did not bulk carb our beer but ran it off into kegs and carbed them up individually we would be wildly inconsistent with our carb levels. How much time are you allowing each beer to carb? Are you doing both kegs at once? or one at a time? We did not expect to sell so much right off the bat (good problem to have!). I think you will find yourself doing more work than you need to. It is fun brewing the beer, and hearing the good things customers say about our beers.

                      What is your expansion plan? We did not think we would need one so soon, you should have one as well.

                      Good conversation

                      Aaron

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cambria Beer Co View Post
                        We brew twice a month, letting time & temperature do some work for us. Our cold room is our choke point, but maybe it is how many beers we want on tap at a given time. we have 5 house beers with others rotating in. On paper everything looked great. We had more than enough room until we started installing equipment and then that damned third dimension of object sucked up alot of the space we thought we would have. The brew and cold rooms got really small really quick, but we adapted and made it work for us, which is what you will have to do. Our system is semi-automated as well, and I sure can't feel confident about serving customers and making sure that the mash pH is accurate, or the temp is holding steady, or the run off is balanced etc etc. It is a lot of work, which i really enjoy.

                        Brite tanks would make your serving and kegging more consistent. If we did not bulk carb our beer but ran it off into kegs and carbed them up individually we would be wildly inconsistent with our carb levels. How much time are you allowing each beer to carb? Are you doing both kegs at once? or one at a time? We did not expect to sell so much right off the bat (good problem to have!). I think you will find yourself doing more work than you need to. It is fun brewing the beer, and hearing the good things customers say about our beers.

                        What is your expansion plan? We did not think we would need one so soon, you should have one as well.

                        Good conversation

                        Aaron
                        My cold room will allow for two fermenters to fit inside at a time. I will cold crash for two days with gelatin. I will burst carb two kegs at a time. If carb levels are inconsistent, I'm OK with that. I think I should be able to get better at it over time.

                        I haven't thought that much about an expansion plan, honestly. I am planning on running a 1 bbl operation for 1-2 years before searching for some angel investors and expanding to a 15-30 BBL system. What is your plan? You said that short term you want to use another space as basically a warehouse, and move up to double batches? That's what I had in mind, too.

                        One other thing I wanted to add is that my beers can be ready fast. I use Fuller's (wlp002/1968) and Westmalle (530/3787) for my American and Belgian ales. My Belgian single can be ready in 7 days. My IPA and hoppy brown ale take three weeks. My dubbel takes one month. I also want to do a rotating tap of low-to-moderate ABV English ales that can all be ready in one week.
                        Last edited by CrookedRun; 12-22-2012, 12:30 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CrookedRun View Post

                          This will be my only job, but I'm only 25 and I can survive on very low income.

                          .
                          Not to be debbie downer but i hope you have a plan b as far as income is concerned. i understand being young and being able to live on very low income. at this size of a system you're probably going to be living on a negative income for quite a while...

                          also, you should at least consider a plan for success. if you find out after you get open that you can't keep up and need to expand to survive, its good to at least have a thought about how that may work.
                          Scott LaFollette
                          Fifty West Brewing Company
                          Cincinnati, Ohio

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                          • #14
                            Draw out a full pro forma with your top to bottom figures. It will shock you. Make sure you are prepared for the long term. This will also help you project where your business will go in the next few years.

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                            • #15
                              I worked with a guy who started a coffee shop. He wasn't prepared for how little business he would get at first, ran out of cash within a month, and closed it down. That's probably the least-prepared business owner I've ever met, but you should really make sure you'll have enough cash to float you in a very pessimistic scenario.

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