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  • carbonating in kegs

    Small nano here - just getting in a stride. I've been distributing kegs - and one of the accounts that tapped 2 kegs said that they had a lot of trouble filling growlers - over carbonated. I'm crediting them for one of the kegs.

    I am carbonating kegs in a chest freezer, 9 at a time hooked up to a co2 tank. I read somewhere that setting the psi at 30 for 2 days, then lowering it to 12 for another 2 days would give it a good psi - I tried that - and it obviously didn't work well.

    Everything else with my system is working well - beer styles are coming out exactly as I am intending, and every account had good things to say about the samples that I've brought - and placed orders.

    I don't have a brite tank, and this is my technique for now. If there is anyone with experience in pressuring individual kegs via co2 tank, I would take any suggestion that you can contribute. If the beers were flowing smoothly, it would all be amounting to a total success. The lines from the tank, to the multi-port distributor, to the kegs are relatively short (5 feet max). Could this be a factor in pushing more co2? This is just one area that I have no approach other than trial and error.

    Any help in this area would be appreciated.

  • #2
    I used to carbonate in kegs when I was home brewing. I found that the best most consistent way was to use a carbonation chart (temp vs psi) and dial it in to the desired volume of co2 and wait a week or so. I never had any problems when I took the time to wait. I did over carbonate a few when I rushed it and tried to use the method you did. You can always bleed off some of the co2 and use the old taste test before you deliver the keg. With that many kegs hooked up you could also end up with different levels of co2 in each keg. Have you ever thought of using priming sugar. Consistent for all kegs and with the right amount no over carbonation. Just a thought.
    Aron Levin
    St. Florian's Brewery
    Windsor CA 95492
    www.stfloriansbrewery.com
    www.facebook.com/stfloriansbrewery

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    • #3
      Are you checking carbonation? It wouldn't be the first time a bartender was wrong...

      I'm thinking something like a paint mixer would accelerate carbonation. Shaking them by hand might be an option if they're 1/6 bbl.
      Sent from my Microsoft Bob

      Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
      seanterrill.com/category/brewing | twomilebrewing.com

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      • #4
        I think the real question becomes do you want consistent or do you want fast. Gunrunner's reply was the consistent way. Using a chart or a carbonation calculator, input the temperature of the chest freezer, input the CO2 volumes that you want, and set your regulator to the PSI that the chart/calculator tells you.

        If you want to carbonate faster, then you have to increase the surface area of beer that is exposed to CO2. If you're just setting the pressure and waiting, you have a pretty small area where beer/gas are being exchanged. Shaking a keg or doing anything involving jacking up pressure for a period of time and then lowering the pressure is going to be fairly inconsistent. If you want faster, and you're using corny kegs, and you're filling all of the kegs at the same time then carbonating, you could use something like this: http://morebeer.com/view_product/182...nating_Keg_Lid in combination with the same flowmeter that has been referenced on this board before: http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=5079K64

        You would put a carbonating keg lid in each keg and before your CO2 multi-port distributor, you would put the flowmeter in-line. This would allow you to set your regulator to the pressure that the calculator tells you, then the flowmeter would trickle the CO2 in over-time so that by the time the kegs reached equilibrium, all of the CO2 before that had bubbled through the solution and hopefully carbonated the beer.

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        • #5
          There are just two parameters that affect gas dissolution into a liquid, whether it's CO2, N2, O2 or anything else:

          - Temperature
          - Pressure

          Lower temperature = higher solubility
          Higher pressure = higher solubility

          Shaking (or preferably gentle rolling) will speed up the rate of dissolution, but will not affect the final amount.

          Increasing/decreasing pressure in cycles is just asking for problems & inconsistency (sorry to be blunt!). If you hold at high pressure for a period, then the amount of dissolved gas will increase until equilibrium is reached. Dropping the pressure inside the keg will just allow some of that dissolved gas to come back out of solution (because dropping pressure = removing gas molecules from the headspace) until a new AND LOWER equilibrium is reached.

          So, to increase CO2 level consistently:

          - Raise the pressure (using CO2) and keep it elevated
          - Cool the kegs as much as is reasonably practical

          If you can gently agitate, then as above this will speed up reaching equilibrium.

          Do this consistently for every batch, every keg, and that will give you the best chance of achieving similar levels in every container.

          Now, when it comes to dispense, make sure you have the right pressure and right dispense gas. If you're just carbonating then use 100% CO2; if you use mixed gas on a CO2-only beer then over time you are likely to lose CO2 and gain N2 into solution (assuming using the same pressure as for 100% CO2. Using mixed gas a a higher pressure will reduce the CO2 loss, but also increase the amount of dissolved N2).

          Hope that helps!

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          • #6
            I've been forced to carb in kegs at this current brewery we have. I can tell you that 30 PSI for 2 days is way too much. I end up hooking up a 1/2BBL keg at 35 PSI for 24 hours, and it ends up almost perfect. The best advice I can give is to keep experimenting with it, dial it in, and keep doing that.

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            • #7
              Temp and PSI chart can be found here: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

              For example, to get 2.5 volumes of CO2, hook up the keg at about 13 PSI at 40ºF for 3 days and that should do it. I usually find I have to leave it up to 5 days. I typically keg on a Monday and have them hooked up until Friday and all are good. However, when I get off that schedule and leave kegs hooked up for too many days, we end up overcarbed. Then I have to bleed off the air repeatedly throughout a day to get it to flatten out some.

              Consistency is one big issue with this method. You also need some headspace in the keg, so I usually drain off a 1/2 gallon from the keg when hooking it up. If I am sending the keg out to distribution later, I then have to top it off from another keg - risky.

              I am about to try carbing with a stone in one of our tanks that can chill and take some pressure. It will hopefully speed up the carbing process, kegging, and get beer ready in a week less time.

              -Kevin

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              • #8
                I cap my .5 and 2.5 BBL fermenters when I'm ~80% attenuated and let the primary fermentation carbonate the beer in the primary. My tanks are rated to 32psi and I use PRV to bleed anything in excess of 20psi. I counter-pressure filter and keg. I then leave the kegs to mature in my chiller. At 66°F 20psi works pretty well. In the winter time I lower the pressure on the PRV to give similar carbonation at 58°F. It's a bit variable, but is pretty reliable and works well for most ales.

                A good quality pressure gauge is useful.

                If my kegs are full this works fine. Partial kegs are happier when the pressure is closer to the required pressure for the desired volume at chiller temps (12psi at room temp seems pretty much perfect on a partial keg when it's dropped to 34°F as the gas will contract some when chilled).

                I bottle from my kegs with a beergun and it's a major pain if they are over-carbonated. When it's all perfect I am able to hum along with bottling at a massive 4 bottles per minute.
                Regards,
                Chris Mills

                Kereru Brewing Company
                http://kererubrewing.co.nz

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