Pre-milled malt

[DageraadBen]

I'm setting up a brewery and my consultant is encouraging me to not buy a mill and to buy pre-milled malt instead.

The benefits, as I understand them are:
Save money on a mill, gristcase and flex auger
Get a better grind with the supplier's 6 roller mill than I could ever get with my own 2 roller mill
Save the space used by a mill
Save the time taken to mill malt
Save the mess and dust of milling

The downsides are:
I'll be charged $2.50 a bag for milling, but I might get part of that back in the form of improved extract from the better-milled grain.
Milled grain will stale faster than unmilled grain, but that should only be a problem if I leave it sitting around for a long time.
It might take a little longer for my supplier to get grain to me if I need it in an emergency.

Am I missing anything here? Is this actually a good idea?

[schmogger]

Do you have the $$$ in the budget to get a mill? If so I would personally would get the mill. I have used premilled malt and it is convenient to use but I know I had lauter problems when using it. Very slow runoffs but my mash tun was narrow and the grain bed was fairly deep. If your mash tun is large and has ample surface area you should be okay. If you are pinching pennies to get open then save the money and get yourself a mill. What is your consultants back ground, has he ever worked in both a small or large brewery or is he just book smart?

[poltz]

To me it is like renting vs buying. Having them mill your gain is like renting their mill for your grain order. Eventually, you will far exceed the price of a mill, auger, space, etc. (and probably in pretty quick order I think). Not that I would volunteer to mill all of your grain, but I vote strongly for the purchase of the mill and the equipment.

Also....remember one of the most important benefits of an auger system. You don't have to hump the grain into the mash tun. That gets old in a hurry. Humping it out is bad enough.

As far as efficiency, you may be right, but with the proper crush you can dial in your system pretty well.

Good Luck,

P

[Ted Briggs]

Get a mill IMHO

[BrewinLou]

With premilled you are at the mercy of the venders mill gap setting. Which is from what I have seen a little fine for a mash tun without rakes. Get the mill, then you can tune in the mill gap for your system.

It's a good day to brew.

[kugeman]

I've also worked in brewpubs that used pre-milled malt and currently work in a pub with a mill & auger. In my opinion the only reason NOT to have a mill is if you don't have the space. You can make good beer with pre-milled malt and can make that system work for you (FYI it takes way longer to mash in with pre-milled, dumping 1 bag at a time into that mash tun and then mixing etc...) if necessary. On a 7 bbl system the mill & auger will pay for itself in 3 or 4 years if you're at all busy.

If you truly don't have the money, then I would set up your brewery so that you can add the mill & auger later when you've got some cash flow. Being able to have control over your grist crush is important, and the pre-milled stuff won't be dialed in for your specific brewery. And it definitely won't be the same every time you order.

Buy the mill if you can.

[Bainbridge]

In another thread, user ConradG recently posted this powerpoint from Briess http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Ass...al_Milling.ppt Interesting read.

One of the pages in it is an economic analysis of the break-even point for a mill setup (mill, grist case, auger, etc.). Seems to be that unless you're making 1000+ bbls it isn't worth having a mill. I disagree a bit, in that I'd at least have a grist case and auger. They're comparatively cheap and will allow you to pre-load the grain so you can mash in easily all by your lonesome without running around, manually chucking bags in. Particularly if you have to carry bags up a steep brewhouse ladder. And you need it if you're using a hydrator.

[DageraadBen]

Thanks for all the responses. Sounds pretty overwhelmingly in favour of a mill.

My consultant has worked at several small breweries and he's opened two. I don't think he's ever used pre-milled malt himself, so maybe he can't see the downside to premilled. He hates the mess of milling his own grain and he seems to think that I'll get better extract from Canada Malting's 6-roller mill. From what a lot of you are saying, I might get worse runoff.

If I went this route, instead of an auger and grist case, I'd put a little hopper on top of the hydrator and feed the bags in while mashing in.

I don't like the idea of losing control over my crush and my own numbers indicate that this mill will pay for itself in 4 or 5 years, including the grist case and auger.

It's something I'll have to consider. Thanks everyone for your input.

[brewmaster 2011]

I felt that when it comes to control, but i have been using pre milled malt from Brewer Supply Group and have never had a problem. I add each bag one at a time directly into the mash tun. With a 3:1 ratio I got 5 bags, 4 bags, 3bags, ect... mixing it for 2 minutes in between. Don't waste the money for somthing like a mill when the money can be saved for another fermenter or brite tank.

[Bainbridge]

I agree there, and brewmaster 2011 makes a good point. On one hand, yes, you've got control. Great if you need to mill in, say, a lot of rye or wheat or six row. On the other, you have to set the mill correctly. I'd trust the maltsters to set their mills correctly. Me on the other hand? Though, as has been mentioned, it can depend on if you've got rakes or not. Because if you don't have the mill set right... Wheeee, a horribly slow lauter or a stuck mash. Or "darn, the sparge sure was easy but I missed gravity by 10 points. Looks like I made a session barleywine." We had some efficiency shenanigans a while back where the grist looked ok in our palms, but we were missing gravity left and right. Turns out we were milling too fine and getting leftover doughy pockets full of sweet wort. So I would definitely invest in a manual shaker set and adjust your mill by "SCIENCE!" and not just your eyeballs. We cheaped out and just use the #14 screen, the lid and the pan. (Those things are surprisingly expensive! Though we've just got the two roller mill, I'd do the full set if I had a 4 or 6.) We check it every month or so to make sure the mill hasn't moved, like, hit a rock or something. Ideally shooting for 70% in the screen, 30% in the pan after 3 minutes of shaking with our Fabulous Science Ball in there. Works for us!

[NHBrewer23]

Just a question but has your consultant worked with or installed a grain handling system before? Is it just that he isn't comfortable with installing or sourcing the equipment?

My vote is to go ahead and buy the mill. My entire grain handling setup which included a new 2-roll mill, (2) 50' Flex Augers, and a 58 cubic foot stainless steel grist case was $13,500. I will admit I could have purchased some components for less, but having my equipment supplier source everything was just one less thing to worry about.

Knowing how much I spent, and realizing this is a rather high price, take what you anticipate brewing volume-wise for the first year and determine how much grain is required to produce that volume. Now multiply the extra milling cost by the total pounds required and see where you stand cost-wise. Depending upon your volume, you may find that the cost of having your own mill will certainly be justified by 5 years.

Van Havig did a great presentation on brewhouse efficiency which can be found on google: van havig brewhouse efficiency. He demonstrates the effects of different grinds and how much extract you can achieve just because of your mill gap setting. In addition to Van's presentation, Briess Malting has a technical presentation on, "Practical Milling for the Craft Brewer." That presentation can be found here: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Mal...sentations.htm. This presentation describes the pro's and cons of having your grain pre-milled versus milling your own including the cost per batch difference.

Slight brewhouse inefficiencies can really add up over the course of a year and as a new brewery, it is imperative to keep your COGS low. Best of luck.

[sok454]

Interesting read. Takeaway is approximately under 1000 bbl go w pre-ground.

[dick murton]

If you are unsure, and can cope for a short period, then I would try pre-milled. A correctly set up 6 roll mill will give you far more consistent results than a 2 roll ever will, and if you supplier gives consistent malt, I would stick with the pre-milled stuff.

Think of the other downsides of having your own mill. You have to consider the maintenance, electricity supply - both cost and safe installation to ensure no sparks. You have dust generation issues - ventilation, explosion risk in a small space, environmental cleaning from any dust leaks. In Europe, and I bet in the States as well, you will have all sorts of legal issues associated with that lot. Oh, and you have to find time to actually mill the damned stuff and monitor it for consistency. What happens if your mill plays up? You can't send it back. And a bit of space simply for the mill.

But I agree that a grist case in some form or another, plus a masher is useful. The grist case doesn't have to be up high either. It can be at floor level, so you load up a few bags at a time, directly from the pallet, and an auger carries it up to the mashing in system.

You don't say what size your brew kit is, but I know plenty of people running 10 UK barrel (about 14 US barrels I think) using only ready milled malt.

So for my money, if you have say a 10 UK barrel or less, definitely go for pre-milled. I agree with your consultant.

[dick murton]

I forgot to mention noise as well

[Coolhand]

Supplier?

Gents -

Who is your favorite supplier for pre-milled malt in the Rocky Mountain area? I just ordered my first pallet of pre-milled 2-Row, started through Country Malt but ended up with the Brewcraft arm since Country Malt doesn't do pre-milled. I know BSG does pre-milled as well.... Any words of wisdom? Freight rates are pretty brutal for me (N. Central Wyoming).

Thanks,
Justin