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Glycol VS Walk In

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  • Glycol VS Walk In

    Glycol Vs Walk In

    I would like some opinion on Glycol cooled serving tanks versus building a walk in. I am in the final stages of planning my brewery-pub and I can’t find a definitive answer to this question. We plan on only serving ales so beer temps should be relatively similar. Also we plan on not using kegs for some time. The cost to outfit my tanks is $1,500 a tank and the costs of building a walk in should be similar i.e. 10K. Has anyone used their glycol system to cool the walk in? Cheers

    Equipment
    7bbl system
    4- 7bbl fermenters
    7- 7bbl serving tanks

    MickDuff

  • #2
    Me Too

    I also have a system coming on line with 4) 7bbl fermenters and 7) 7 bbl serving tanks and a large glycol chiller. I had hoped to cool the walk-in using the chiller. Does anyone know a good supplier for the glycol evaporation unit for the walk-in?

    BrewerBlue

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    • #3
      I dont think this is such a good idea. Mainly, the walking is cooled with a refrigerant like r-420 or something, and the glycol SHOULD be a food grade propelene glycol like Dowfrost. Dowfrost is really really expensive ($500 for a 55gal drum, you will probably need two...) and really is unsuited for the cooling of a walkin. At least that is my totally unproffesssssional opinion, we have only been open three months....and Im no engineer.
      Dave

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      • #4
        With a seperate glycol chiller and cold room, at least when the chiller breaks down (which DOES happen) my serving tanks aren't in any danger...just the fermenters. There is something to be said for having two different temperature systems controlling your fermenting beers and your finished product...just a thought...
        Hutch Kugeman
        Head Brewer
        Brooklyn Brewery at the Culinary Institute of America
        Hyde Park, NY

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        • #5
          Sorry to be vague, Guys..........

          It really depends on your lay-out, system, and efficiencies.........

          The earlier comment by kugeman was great..........if yoru glycol chiller takes a crap, at least you're covered. However, in my Brewery and Alehouse, the walk-in compressors are the units that craps out the most. Our chiller is golden (knock on a keg).

          If you have a small walk-in, plan to keg, and need the walk-in for keg storage for wholesale deliveries as well, then external serving tanks might be the way to go. One thing I've seen with walk-ins used for serving tank storage is that they never allow room for anyone to get around the tanks to do any cleaning. Some pretty nasty molds grow in there!

          Probably if you have the space and budget, puting the tanks in a walk-in is a pretty efficient way to go. Once you get all that mass brought down to temperature, it acts as a buffer to prevent wild temperature swings when you load another tank or open the door a lot. If you are worried about system failure of the glycol chiller, then stay away from glycol-air heat exchangers in the walk-in as a cooling feature. I've seen this done up here in the Puget Sound and when the chiller goes down, the Brewery, Bar, AND Kitchen were all shut down.
          However, there are some energy efficiency advantages to doing this.

          Another plus for going in a walk-in with the tanks is the ability to keep some of your serving line in the cool space as well. External tanks would require jacketed lines coming from their lower ports cooled with glycol parallel lines, most often, and wrapped in Armaflex insulation or a dense closed cell foam. This traps mold as well and should be hidden from the public. It also makes replacing the lines a real chore!

          Efficiency wise, it's about a wash either way. Glycol has a much better heat removal capacity than air, which is the cooling media inside the walk-in. However, the walk-in box, if well built and insulated, may weigh out better than a set of big, sweaty tanks sitting in the corner.

          BTW, the biggest modes of failure for refrigerant systems are:
          1.) Dirty condensor - refrigerant cannot give up heat.

          2.) System leaks - refrigerant escapes and system cannot function within pressure / temperature specifications.

          3.) Short cycling - system is the wrong size, or low on refrigerant, and the system kicks on and off continuously while trying to perform. This destroys starter relays and solenoids. Using a 1 hp compressor to cool an 80 sq-ft walk-in will do this too.

          Glycol chillers are basically refrigeration compressors that remove heat from a glycol reservior or heat exchanger.

          Anywho...........just my $.02.

          Comment


          • #6
            I recommend a walk-in. Individually controlled tanks are great if you would like to serve beers at different temperatures. But your beer "snakes" would likewise have to be dedicated to different temperatures. Alll those individual controls will eventually fail. And as Diamond Knot said, the fittings from the tank valve onwards have to be individually cooled. Pain in the butt to install and to operate. A cold room gives you one environment in which to keep your beer tanks, lines, and beer pumps cold. Hops too. And only one circuit to monitor and perhaps fail. As far as cleaning goes, wash down the whole room frequently with Quat. My cold rooms have been spotless--absolutely no mold growth with good brewery hygiene. On the downside, you must clean the tanks cold. Which means you will get cold. If you go this route, try to insulate underneath the cold room slab. And give yourself a local (inside the cold room) switch to turn off the cooling while you clean. Good luck & cheers!
            Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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            • #7
              My cellar for a production brewery is all chilled. The 500 sq. ft. room is cooled by the same glycol that cools the fermenters. Fermenters can chill a little sooner than you'd expect in a cold room. You will also be able to store hops and the future kegs in there. (On a hot brew day it feels pretty good, too!) Any extra dollars spent making it MORE insulated than you'd planned will pay you back manyfold in electricity bills. With glycol, if your compressor fails, you can always replumb to temporary ice water if you're resourceful before the refrigeration guy is done.

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              • #8
                Thanks for all the great tips.

                MickDuffs

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