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mfos
07-15-2005, 12:10 PM
Listened to the Fermentis presentation in Philadelphia with interest and wondered what experiences anyone has had using these yeasts. I am doing some tests with the Safale S-04 and Safbrew S-33 and so far am pleased. Easy to work with and store, cheap, and the flavor profiles seem to be working. Anyone have any negatives or thoughts on the matter?

zbrew2k
07-15-2005, 02:00 PM
I've used most of the line up so far.

The biggest drawback is the price. I have repitched them without too much problem, although that isnt recommended.

If the cost isn't an issue keep using them as they are easy to use.

The flavor profiles are good, and I havent had any problems with bacteria from them. Although I dont use them more than the initial pitch, and maybe the next generation.

Good Luck,
B

pbutlert
07-15-2005, 04:59 PM
I was forced to try these yeasts in a brewery where sales were slipping, and propagation was no longer practical. The results were pretty much as good as with liquid yeasts, as I recall the generations did not go as far was the main drawback. But the price, variety and ease of use more than made up for it. As far as I know, this brewery is still using them with some success. It really dropped the "homebrew" attitude I had toward dried yeasts. Go for it if it works for you!

tariq khan
07-15-2005, 07:00 PM
I'm a big fan of Safale yeasts, flavors are elegant, fermentations are consistent. I do however find beers that we have used Safale US-56 to be quite lively
at racking (into cask) sometimes too lively !

The yeast flocculates well also...we've done an organic cask bitter that dropped bright without Isinglass.

I think the cost is worth it.

Tariq (Dark Star Brewery)

jipjanneke
07-17-2005, 08:21 AM
A question regarding pitching this brand of yeast, the instructions on the pack recommend either rehydrating into a quantity of wort and then pitching the mix into the fermenter, or sprinkling on top of the wort as it is going into the fermenter.

Does anyone use the second method (it's obviously easier!), and if so, can you please compare the results with the first?

RobZamites
07-18-2005, 12:21 PM
I just carefully (and as sanitarily as possible) added the dry yeast to the wort throught the manway as it was pumping out of the heat exchanger into the fermenter. Close the manway, spray down with iodophor and finish my knockout -- I usually had active fermentation within 4-5 hours.

YMMV, as usual.

gitchegumee
07-19-2005, 12:50 AM
I've used S-04, S-189, W34-70 and K-97 a few years back when I set up a brewery for folks who wanted it as simple as possible. Dried yeasts offer the benefit of anytime use with no propagation logistics. The S-04 was a great yeast. The others were, unfortunately, miserable. I switched to propagation with liquid cultures for the benefit of the better results with the other beers. Since then, I believe DCL has retooled their product line and may have worked out flavor problems that I encountered.

damoller
07-20-2005, 04:54 AM
I've used S-04, S-189, W34-70 and K-97 a few years back when I set up a brewery for folks who wanted it as simple as possible. Dried yeasts offer the benefit of anytime use with no propagation logistics. The S-04 was a great yeast. The others were, unfortunately, miserable. I switched to propagation with liquid cultures for the benefit of the better results with the other beers. Since then, I believe DCL has retooled their product line and may have worked out flavor problems that I encountered.
great yeast
miserable
what exactly do you mean with these descriptions. They are not valuble when ascertaining the value of a product.

gitchegumee
07-20-2005, 06:31 AM
Right, sorry. The S-04 was great: Because it cropped well from cylindroconicals, had fast, reliable fermentations and consistent OGs, AND it offered me a way out of logistical issues with culturing five different yeasts for six different beers using 13 fermenters. It's also handy if you somehow ruin your expected yeast pitch for the day. It stores well, ferments clean, and is easy to use.
The others were miserable: Because I had excessive lag times using the lager yeasts at 11C. The flavors were not within style. I would have to pull notes I wrote (that I don't have here) to better describe the flavors. The W-34/70 was particularly weak with any weizen flavor notes. The yeasts flocced poorly. I remember very runny yeast pulls.
I used them for the first time almost three years ago, ran several batches, and gave up with them except for the S-04. I recall hearing that the W-34/70 may have been taken off the market briefly for a product retool a while back. Maybe just a rumor.
Hope this helps! Cheers!

Sir Brewsalot
07-20-2005, 08:04 AM
Can anyone provide a US source for this yeast? Sounds like something I may want to look at...

Thanks,
Scott

msmartin
07-20-2005, 09:32 AM
Crosby and Baker. Get in touch with Jon. Great product, Have had very good results.

Ted Briggs
07-21-2005, 11:16 AM
I have used the lager strains when I have not had a extra tank to prop with. Made a very nice bock and pilsner. I used two bricks for a 11.5 bbl pitch to avoid problems though. (still the same cost liquid prop up) Also a great thing to have around for stuck fermentations, lack of enough yeast crop, ect.

Rosie
07-22-2005, 07:51 AM
Guys,

I've been using s23 saflager on a homebrew scale and have had good results with this yeast, even fermenting up into high ale temps, without noticable (by me) side effects.

Has anyone used this yeast beyond the homebrew level? I've used it across a couple styles with varying fermentation parameters and haven't been disappointed...been repitching once before buying a new pack.

Chrs,

RobZamites
11-23-2005, 10:12 PM
Rosie,
I used Safale S-04 a commercial brewery (20bbl), and had great results. Highly flocculant, clean ferment, nice crisp profile on my IPA.

Brew Chef
06-09-2010, 12:32 AM
Guys,

I've been using s23 saflager on a homebrew scale and have had good results with this yeast, even fermenting up into high ale temps, without noticable (by me) side effects.

Has anyone used this yeast beyond the homebrew level? I've used it across a couple styles with varying fermentation parameters and haven't been disappointed...been repitching once before buying a new pack.

Chrs,

we've used it for our california common and fermented at high temp....about 68 degrees. Worked well and had a distinctly different flavor than safale s-04.

Phil
06-30-2010, 08:09 AM
I only these yeasts, somewhat through I don't brew regularly enough to justify wet pitches, but I also like some of them.

US-05, cal ale, 001/1056. There are people who say that there are slight differences between the three versions, and those that say it I am inclined to support - but, whether the punter knows... I doubt it. This is the stock yeast we use, ferms well, flocks out, little sulphur issues on occasion (but that could be my water treatment) - we get very nice bright beers. Standard ferm anything between 18-22'c (I have "accidentally" ferm'd at 26'c+ with little negative effect) - starts to crap out at below 15'c, but will still slow ferment - I have cold conditioned with this, as much as I can at 9'c to give a kolsch-esque type brew, minus a fruity/estery nose. Blends well with other more distinctive strains ;-)

K97 - very fine powdery yeast. Ferm'd with good krausen. 4 days at 16'c then dropped to 9'c and hold (as low as I can go) for two weeks. We did, with adjunct fining & Isiinglas (and P'floc in kettle) get a nice clear beer. Whether this was a true Kolsch, having not lagered, I doubt it, but I will use it again.

T58 - hefty belgian strain. very very belgian. Hard to floc out. I found best used in blend with a low ester english/US ale strain. 70/30 80/20 - low end for t58. Start warm and ramp down to get nice "belgian" notes. Made an english hopped IPA, with this - it was just tooooo much. I wished I had just used a %'ge of that strain, rather. It took ages to lose a really heavy nose, and mellow down to a sound belgian note.

s33, fast ferment. Strange flavoured yeast. Bottled well, beer only tasted nice when the yeast wasn't in suspension. I am told that this is a delirium/huyghe strain, or part of. The beer, only once warm conditioned did it start to take on a belgian-y note. It was otherwise very spicy. I would use it again as a bottling yeast.

So4. diacetyl bomb if you're not careful. Oxygenate, rouse and rest. makes great dark UK ales. It's supposed to be a Whitbread strain. Works well, clears well, ferms fast but the potential for Diacetyl is too much for me, being a fan of the US05. (I have however blended to reduce this note, with the US05)

S23, lagered in freezer as a homebrewer, gave a very very nice clean lager. Want to try this for a steam beer.

WB? not heard great things about this. can't really comment further, as I haven't actually used it, so perhaps best ignoring me on that one.

The dry rest? Windsor, Nottingham? There is a wit beer yeast somewhere?

and there is another lager strain from Fermentis?


hope that helps?

GeorgeJ
07-30-2010, 09:24 AM
totally agree with sulphur issues from US-05 sometimes. we have had a few eggy stinkers which needed a hell of alot of co2 bubbling through and holding under pressure.

so4 is a great yeast, the attenuation is pretty poor though flocculation is great.

Sulfur
07-30-2010, 10:04 AM
Never had sulfur issues with it.

dick murton
08-22-2010, 02:21 PM
Well

After setting up on my own, I wasn't going to go into the micro brewing world as the main source of income, but guess what ??????

Anyway, we wanted to get going PDQ, so after seeing this and asking a few other people, I tried S04 yeast

Never again. I know the temperature control wasn't great, and wort oxygenation is to say the least not brilliant - but that was part of the supposed strength of dried yeast

The beer came out smelling like Sauvignon Blanc, not beer. Dropped like a stone leaving pretty clear beer and fermented like a dream in terms of SG reduction, but.....

Fresh yeast here we come


Cheers

tariq khan
08-22-2010, 02:46 PM
Wow,

I'm really surprised to hear your dismal results Dick. I've always had a clean neutral flavour from S-04, never any Diacetyl or weird aromas in the 5+ years I've been using it. I've had a few instances in England also where our cooling broke down and ended up fermenting high (26-27 C).

Strange.

T

dick murton
08-22-2010, 03:06 PM
Ah, the neutral flavour. If you discount the vinous aroma, you are right, it doesn't add anything. However we were hoping for a little more character. Oh yes it also seemed a little "bready yeast", not from the malt

So I will have to phone around for some yeast tomorrow

Aaah the joys of starting from scratch

Cheers

Brew Chef
08-22-2010, 06:42 PM
S-04 has been a workhorse for our brewpub. Agreed that attenuation is poor but we brew styles that allow it....pale ales, IPAs, sweet stout, browns, and reds. I've never gotten a final gravity below 1012 but we don't brew below OG's of 1050 either. I might try blending it with 05 sometime but for the most part I'm stuck on this yeast.

liammckenna
08-23-2010, 11:08 AM
S-04 has been a workhorse for our brewpub. Agreed that attenuation is poor but we brew styles that allow it...

I agree. this is also the workhorse of our brewpub.

Doesn't like underpitching generally. Gen1 can be 'vinous' with underaeration.

Subsequent generations can take a lot of punishment though. And can also give you some heady flavour notes. Our 'Fightin' Irish' (ABV 5.5, AE 3.5 oP - dry fermented, high Temp conversion) is underpitched, underoxygenated and fermented at 66 oF.

Can you say higher alcohols? Primary is still only 4 days.

We use others on occasion but this is our mainstay.

Pax.

Liam

oppigards
08-23-2010, 01:38 PM
Dick: We have used Saf Ale 04 for years now, 500gr for 2000 liters of wort day one, and then added wort 2 to 4 days more. Never a problem with taste, aroma, floc, attenuation. Vinous aroma??, I doubt that you can claim the yeast for that. But when it is you who says so.... well we pitch dry yeast directly to the fermenter rather warm 23-26 deg celsius, turn down temp to 22-23 when fermentation is started. Sometimes we let it ferment without temperature control. Makes it a bit more fruity but it tastes good.

gitchegumee
08-24-2010, 08:01 AM
Gotta join in on the SO4 bandwagon. Although I prefer the Nottingham for incredible attenuation (10.7 down to 1.65), I have used SO4 for years with no off tastes. And I dont oxygenate it at all. I will also highly recommend WB06 used at about 60% of recommended pitch levels and no oxygen. This stress on the yeast really brings out the phenols for a genuine German-style wheat. Great product.

dick murton
08-24-2010, 03:19 PM
Well, Thanks for the comments guys

I am struggling to get top fermenting yeast out of any of the local larger (not jumbo) brewers. It really is too much hassle for them to supply it except at exorbitant cost. So it will be back to the Fermentis for the next brew or two. So the next problem will be cropping the stuff for re-use out of a shallow dish vessel

I didn't realise what I was missing working in a big brewery for so long, with really good kit - going back to almost homebrew standards of kit is a whole new ball game - and great fun at present. :D

Cheers

liammckenna
08-24-2010, 03:40 PM
Enjoy it for what it is Dick.

Keep doing what you know you do well.

Life is change.

Work is always a process of continuous improvement.

I'll shut me gob now.

Pax.

Liam

tnknight
08-24-2010, 05:35 PM
We use Fermentis yeasts in just about every beer we produce. I don't use S-04, but I found oxygenating US-05 on the first pitch produced a tart fruit flavor, inconsistent with the beers I was trying to produce. Both major dry yeast manufacturers have mentioned there are enough lipids within the cell for the first fermentation (for average gravity worts). As soon as I stopped aerating the first pitch, I noticed far better flavor profiles for US-05.

I have used S-189, S-23, and W34/70 and found I would rather save S-189 for darker lagers and bock style beers then use in our house pilsner. I found it too rich for more moderate gravity/paler lagers. No issues with S-23, we just went with W34/70 as it produced the flavor profile we desired.

Rosie
08-25-2010, 11:07 AM
Hey Dick,

Sorry to hear your S04 experience...hope you don't blame me, mate!

Sounds like you have a lot of variables.

We use dry S04 for our pale and porter without fail. Pitching 250g / 750l of 1.038 wort dry, no rehydration. We do aerate. We let it go from 18-22 as a general rule.

On the cropping, I think you could top crop it day 2-3 without any problems. Post fermentation I've pulled yeast from bottom as well, using roughly 1l of slurry per UK barrel...Our dish bottom Grundies have a standpipe that we can remove and pull yeast...not great but works when you forget to order yeast.

Have fun!

beermkr
08-25-2010, 01:01 PM
I use

US-05 for our Pale and IPA

S-04 for the Red and Brown

S-23 for the Lager and Porter

WB-06 for the Hefe

T-58 for our Seasonal Belgian

As you can tell I am pretty sold on them for the small brewer. I also liked using the US-05 in the bigger brewery and repitching for no more than 5 generations. It got me new yeast more often and actually was cheaper in the long run.

At the brewpub I typically use a new pack each time I brew. The only exception is the Porter which I try to time with the lager so I can pitch a bigger amount.

R/

dick murton
08-29-2010, 02:13 PM
"Pitching 250g / 750l of 1.038 wort dry, no rehydration"

Ah, I'm still grossly overpitching it seems. The last brew was 350 g for 6.5 hl, and it went like the clappers - due to final cool it tomorrow am after it has had the diacetyl rest overnight. Cooling is a bit uncontrolled, so dare not try to cool it a mere 2 or 3 degrees tonight first, so will be left warmer that I really would have liked until then

Thanks for the feedback / help guys

Cheers

Dick

deadvet
09-01-2010, 06:44 AM
I have been looking to buy fermentis for my brewery but can only find homebrew supplies. where can i get the big packs?

thanks
steve
2nd shift brewing

v2comp
09-01-2010, 06:53 AM
I have been looking to buy fermentis for my brewery but can only find homebrew supplies. where can i get the big packs?

thanks
steve
2nd shift brewing


Crosby and Baker Ltd, have (9) different dry yeasts in bulk, (6) Ale yeasts and (3) Lager strains

you have to set up an account with them as a brewery to see those products listed.:D

BigWilley
09-01-2010, 06:54 AM
Crosby and Baker. Call them and ask for the 500gram packs.
I actually have my first beer pitched with SO-4 (Pale Ale) finishing up primary as we speak. I'll post my results.

deadvet
09-01-2010, 08:02 AM
Thats what i figured, just wast sure if they were the only supplier.

thanks

v2comp
09-01-2010, 10:40 AM
while I am not sure if they are the only ones, I can say that they were very helpful in the beginning, and and one of the few things I still buy from them is dry yeast. always been very professional and easy to work with from my standpoint.

BigWilley
09-13-2010, 06:59 AM
Filtered my first beer (Pale Ale) done with the S-04 Friday. Good results. Started at 15P ended at 3.2P with 4.5 days active primary, pitched 500grams dry directly into the wort no rehydration. Oxygenated at about 1/2 the level I usually do. I usually use WLP 001 so the beer definately finished higher, 3.2 as opposed to right around 2P for 001. Nice soft mouth feel, hops were a bit muted compared to 001, but I expected that. Pretty clean and neutral with a very subdued fruitiness that is barely noticeable. I did not get the best yeast harvest but that was probably because i pitched a little on the low side. I will try the S-05 pretty soon to see how it performs. Overall i am happy with the current results. The repitched batch should be ready by the end of this week (red ale( and I will see how it comes out. The yeast I did harvest was very thick and compact compared to 001. Reminded me of when I used White labs Dry English Ale yeast.

critch
01-12-2011, 05:03 AM
s-04 and lallemand nottingham are the workhorses in our brewery weve very rarely encountered a problem with them and when we have its normally due to equipment failure or staff error

ive brewed a number of award and festival winning beers with these two:)

Larry Horwitz
01-13-2011, 06:48 AM
I've got to tell you....I NEVER thought I'd be saying this....the dry yeast from Fermentis is incredible. I've used the entire lineup without issue. It has blown my mind. The entire line is repitchable, the only one that seems to have trouble is the Hefe strain, but then so does the liquid form.

the instructions say to re-hydrate, but we've had great luck just pitching dry. I also believe it lowers the contamination possible with using water.

on cost, WAY cheaper then liquid cultures. I feel guilty now if I have to buy liquid (mostly due to needing a specific strain)

do it, you won't be dissapointed.

theBrewMeister
03-28-2012, 05:18 PM
We have won 3 Gold and 5 Silver GABF Medals with S-04 .

So, needless to say, we like Fermentis. ;-)

theBrewMeister
03-28-2012, 05:21 PM
We have won 3 Gold and 5 Silver GABF Medals with S-04 .

So, needless to say, we like Fermentis. ;-)


Pitch it Dry, right on the cool wort @ 250g/ 4bbls. Oxygenate, if you want, @ 8lbs over line pressure.

You'll have to take my word for it, I won't say what brewery or beers. We gotta keep some things secret, no? ;-)

Renzo
04-20-2012, 04:49 AM
Just wondering if anyone uses S-189 for their lagers? If so do you aerate? and how many generations fo you get out of it?

kugeman
04-20-2012, 06:25 AM
Yup, I've used S-189 for lagers. I do aerate as I normally would. I'm curious, is there a reason not to?

I've only ever repitched it 2x, but that's because I don't brew many lagers. The 2nd generation performed fine, so I would have been comfortable continuing to repitch it.

Renzo
04-20-2012, 03:41 PM
I'd assume to aerate it being a lager (pitching cold), but out of interest just wondering if anyone doesn't based on the previous posts here for some of the ale strains.

wlg
04-23-2012, 12:09 AM
I brewed at a micro a few years back that used US-05 and it performed very well for us there. Now I am at a new start-up that uses US-05 as well. We are into our fourth batch this week and I still am not getting the kind of performance I remember out of this yeast. Here is what I am doing, and what I am noticing, any insights are appreciated...

-We are pitching 5, 500 gram bricks into a "yeast brink" (1/2 bbl keg w/ 4" tri-clamp opening in top and 1 1/2'' tri-clamp outlet on bottom...you know the one). We run about 4-5 gallons of 90-ish degree wort into it. We found that rehydrating warm works wonders to prevent clumping. I have been reluctant to toss it in through the door on the tank because we have 60 bbl tanks and I don't think it would hit wort, just the sani-covered tank wall. -

-This pitch is for 30 + BBLs. We brew twice into the tanks and have been pitching w/ each knockout, though on the last batch we brewed over two consecutive days and I was getting confident enough to just send in the second batch w/o additional yeast. Seems to have worked.

- I am oxygenating w/ pure oxygen, a little more each time in hopes this will enhance performance. I had heard the Lallemand products did not need O2 but never read this for Fermentis.

-We knockout to 70-72 and set the glycol to 69.

- Getting lag times of nearly 24 hours ( I remember this yeast kicking off in 4-6 at the other place). After starting it attenuates on a typical schedule.
- Getting diacetyl precursors in spite of generous d-rest though not at problematic levels.
- Getting volatile sulfur at the end of fermentation.
- Consistently getting FG of 1.012. Pretty-much on target.
-Generating about one bbl of slurry, seems like very little for the batch size.
-Slurry is very runny and unconvincing.
- At a previous job we were trained to evaluate slurry by, among other things, tasting it. I thought it was a little silly at first, but eventually copped to it. I tasted this slurry the other day and just a finger tip's worth sent me running to the sink for water because of an intense burning sensation it left i my mouth. Very unusual. I know this is highly anecdotal but any idea what thats about?
- One batch has displayed noticeable phenols.

I was just going to keep laying it on thicker w/ the o2 but some comments here are leading me to believe I'm barking up the wrong tree. We are getting good fermentations for the most part but this is all very inconsistent w/ my prior impression of this strain and slightly disconcerting. Any guidance appreciated.

Cheers

liammckenna
04-23-2012, 10:59 AM
WLG -

I had a similar issue with thin slurry collection. I would suggest looking at your water chemistry profile. Our issue was Zinc deficiency.

Best of luck.

Pax.

Liam

RothBrewing
05-30-2012, 12:30 PM
I am brewing our Dunkel and our hefe starting with wb06. Had some really nice batches out of the liquid weizen strain from BSI. From all my research I have been hearing that this is a bad strain for dunkels, and there hasn't been alot of embellishment on why that is. (Maybe because of a relatively high attenuation and not leaving the beer with an appropriate sweetness?)

Anyways, Im brewing my Dunkel with this yeast today and I will keep everyone in the loop on how it goes. The recipe is 60% Wheat, 25% munich, and 15% smattering of crystals and darker malts. Fermentation temp is set for 64F.

More to come!

Eric Roth
Roth Brewing Company, Raleigh NC

RothBrewing
06-12-2012, 10:23 AM
So, using the WB06 out of fermentis I have gotten a sweeter lighter fruit ester (or what i think tastes like an ester)on the front of the beer than anticipated. This flavor is not present in my hefe brewed with the same strain. I wouldnt say its an apple flavor and I also can say that it is not a bad flavor just . . different than what I was expecting. It lacks the dark carmalized fruit that I have been getting out of my dunkel with previous batches. Now this batch has also not had its appropriate aging period so I will post a little bit more info after when I would considered the beer "finished". Im thinking maybe because I ferment this batch of beer at a low temp for the style (64F) ?

Comments or questions would be appreciated but not mandatory!

theBrewMeister
10-17-2012, 10:31 AM
I ferment with wb06 at temps upwards of 80F. Depending on what flavor profile I desire (clove, banana). In my Hefe, I pitch at 76F and allow it to climb as high as it wants, usually 82F. I've found this to be the best way to get a decent amount of banana character.

I did a White IPA with this yeast as well and kept fermentation temps in the mid 60's. This, along with the amount and type of hops used, produced a more "belgian" flavor (spicy, slight clove.)

I might also add, I typically underpitch this yeast and don't oxygenate the wort.

I havent done a dunkel yet, so I cant comment on that, but these parameters may help you decide how to use this yeast.

Kev7555
11-01-2012, 08:17 PM
I have been fermenting several beers with SO5 in place of 1056 lately and quite honestly I am beginning to like the SO5 better. It attenuates to roughly the same range and seems to accentuate hop flavor and aroma profiles somewhat more so then its counterpart.

Have been repitching these slurries several times with none of the previously mentioned issues, thouh I am only about four generations into it...a bit early to tell. I do not rehydrate, only sprinkle on top of the wort. Most brews that do well with 1056 do as well or better with this one. It made my favorite IPA of the fall so far..

-Kev

philv
04-07-2013, 10:03 PM
I'm a big fan of Safale yeasts, flavors are elegant, fermentations are consistent. I do however find beers that we have used Safale US-56 to be quite lively
at racking (into cask) sometimes too lively !

The yeast flocculates well also...we've done an organic cask bitter that dropped bright without Isinglass.

I think the cost is worth it.

Tariq (Dark Star Brewery)
which of the safale would you recommend as a house strain. northwest pale + ipa.

nateo
04-08-2013, 07:26 AM
which of the safale would you recommend as a house strain. northwest pale + ipa.

The US-56 Tariq was talking about is called US-05 now. It's the closest thing to Chico Fermentis offers.

tariq khan
04-09-2013, 10:17 PM
which of the safale would you recommend as a house strain. northwest pale + ipa.

I like the US-05 for Hoppy American Style IPA/Northwest Pale, Takes longer to clear though. S-04 I like for English styles especially stouts.

For my house ale strain I actually use 50/50 S-04/US-05. I get some esters but mainly a fairly neutral flavour profile(which i like), and it clears very quickly (I don't filter). I use it for IPA, Amber Ale, English Pale Ale.

T

Crosley
03-13-2015, 09:30 AM
I am brewing my Belgian Pale Ale today and this will be my first time using T-58 after switching from a liquid BSI yeast. It seems that the comments in this thread are very very inconsistent regarding pitching rates. The package recommends 80g/hl which would be around 240g/3bbl. The range from you guys is between 125 and 300grams.

Does anyone have any final suggestions in terms of how much to pitch for a 3bbl batch of 16p wort?

Cheers,
Andy

soia1138
03-13-2015, 09:45 AM
That sounds fine. We normally will pitch 500g per 7bbl for about the same SG. Rehydrate per instructions and use some O2 and you should be good.

Crosley
03-13-2015, 03:55 PM
Awesome, thanks for the suggestion.

CharlosCarlies
03-16-2015, 04:36 PM
That sounds fine. We normally will pitch 500g per 7bbl for about the same SG. Rehydrate per instructions and use some O2 and you should be good.

We're currently using US-05 and W-34/70 as our house strains and use the exact same pitch rate for our standard gravity ales and almost double that for our lagers. We do re-hydrate in water, but we do not add O2. We've done many batches both ways and noticed zero difference in lag time, attenuation, etc. How we re-hydrate and using a good yeast nutrient seems to be significantly more important (at least in our experience).

With that said, the times we do re-pitch (mostly the 34/70 because of cost reasons) we always add O2 as we would for a liquid strain.

soia1138
03-16-2015, 05:11 PM
I would agree on the lag times and the attenuation. We went without O2 for a while but then brewed a double ipa with the US-05 and I wasn't happy with my final pH on the first couple of batches. I introduced the O2 at this point and there was a definite drop down to more reasonable range for the next few. Still the lag times and attenuation were seemingly the same but it seemed just a slightly stronger ferment overall given the pH changes. After that the pith rate was increased slightly and that was the final push to putting the pH right where I wanted it.

beerguy1
03-17-2015, 07:36 AM
What is everyones thoughts on the cost of dry yeast? I use White labs slurry (for 10+ years) and have had great luck with it. I have a 15 bbl system and last I checked thats 2 bricks of dry yeast. Seems like the cost is quite high?. But, I will be the first to admit I havent done a ton of research on this but I would love to change my yeast for the IPA

CharlosCarlies
03-17-2015, 08:20 AM
I have a 15 bbl system and last I checked thats 2 bricks of dry yeast. Seems like the cost is quite high?

A brick of US-05 costs us ~$50. $100 per batch for 15 bbl of beer doesn't seem high to me!

Edit to add: You also have to look at the actual cell count. From what I remember, White Labs' "pitchable" quantities were quite low so you also have to consider that when comparing true costs.

Bainbridge
03-17-2015, 10:02 AM
Yeah...$50 for a 10bbl pitch is A-Ok by me. Plus you can store them in your cold room for up to two years. So I always keep backup bricks around.

Seems to me that if you're paying $300 for an equivalent pitch, you're worrying about stretching as many generations as you can from it (as we do with our liquid pitches of our Kolsch strain). Whereas with a $50 dry pitch of US-05, I'll go four to six generations and if it starts doing anything weird, or just sits for too long or I get a poor harvest or something, then I've always got a fresh pitch in the cooler ready to go. Or as an emergency backup if say, something is unexpectedly lagging really badly.

CharlosCarlies
03-17-2015, 10:45 AM
Plus you can store them in your cold room for up to two years. So I always keep backup bricks around.

Seems to me that if you're paying $300 for an equivalent pitch, you're worrying about stretching as many generations as you can from it (as we do with our liquid pitches of our Kolsch strain). Whereas with a $50 dry pitch of US-05, I'll go four to six generations and if it starts doing anything weird, or just sits for too long or I get a poor harvest or something, then I've always got a fresh pitch in the cooler ready to go. Or as an emergency backup if say, something is unexpectedly lagging really badly.

Exactly. Even if/when we switch to all liquid strains, it's nice to always have some dry yeast sitting in the cooler.

scmorgan
03-19-2015, 03:03 AM
I.

- Getting lag times of nearly 24 hours ( I remember this yeast kicking off in 4-6 at the other place). After starting it attenuates on a typical schedule.
- Getting diacetyl precursors in spite of generous d-rest though not at problematic levels.
- Getting volatile sulfur at the end of fermentation.
- Consistently getting FG of 1.012. Pretty-much on target.
-Generating about one bbl of slurry, seems like very little for the batch size.
-Slurry is very runny and unconvincing.
- At a previous job we were trained to evaluate slurry by, among other things, tasting it. I thought it was a little silly at first, but eventually copped to it. I tasted this slurry the other day and just a finger tip's worth sent me running to the sink for water because of an intense burning sensation it left i my mouth. Very unusual. I know this is highly anecdotal but any idea what thats about?
- One batch has displayed noticeable phenols.

Cheers

This is our lot. Been getting worse over the last 12 months and i have used this stuff for over 10 years. Switched to 001, 3 days quicker ferment, 2 days VDK ... no sulfur or phenols ...

Crosley
04-13-2015, 08:28 AM
I am brewing my Belgian Pale Ale today and this will be my first time using T-58 after switching from a liquid BSI yeast. It seems that the comments in this thread are very very inconsistent regarding pitching rates. The package recommends 80g/hl which would be around 240g/3bbl. The range from you guys is between 125 and 300grams.

Does anyone have any final suggestions in terms of how much to pitch for a 3bbl batch of 16p wort?

Cheers,
Andy


UPDATE:
I brewed this beer which was a Belgian Pale Ale with T-58 yeast and Mandarina Bavaria hops. I pitched 240g for a 3bbl batch. I did not rehydrate but I did oxygenate.
I started my fermentation at 68 for 24 hours and then I let it free rise for the next 4 days. final temp was 72.
This beer came out great (very different than my batch using liquid yeast from BSI). I do not get the strong Belgian esters but flavors more along the lines of a traditional hefe yeast, banana and clove notes.

Just thought I'd let you guys know how it turned out, thanks for all of the help. Oh and by the way, no finings and this beer is absolutely crystal clear.

barleyfreak
05-23-2015, 08:46 PM
Gotta join in on the SO4 bandwagon. Although I prefer the Nottingham for incredible attenuation (10.7 down to 1.65), I have used SO4 for years with no off tastes. And I dont oxygenate it at all. I will also highly recommend WB06 used at about 60% of recommended pitch levels and no oxygen. This stress on the yeast really brings out the phenols for a genuine German-style wheat. Great product.

Zero oxygen?