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View Full Version : Best No-Rinse Sanitizer for SIP



d_striker
04-05-2014, 11:29 PM
I've been using IO-Star (iodophor) from Five Star at 12.5ppm for SIP of FV's and BBT's. I haven't rinsed with water after SIP but I notice that it foams up a good bit when using spray balls.

I don't think that it's affecting the flavor but I'm not certain. What no-rinse sanitizers are you guys using that doesn't foam when SIP?

a10t2
04-06-2014, 11:27 AM
I don't think anything that's effective for CIP can be truly non-foaming. Without a surfactant, the chemical wouldn't work as well, and a surfactant will inevitably foam. At least that's how I've always thought about it; maybe I'm mistaken. If you're using the sanitizer at the correct concentration, where it's been formulated to be no-rinse and flavor-neutral, there shouldn't be an issue.

You could always take a worst-case scenario, say a gallon of sanitizer left in the tank, work out the dilution ratio (i.e. in 15 bbl that would be ~0.03 ppm iodine), dose some beer at that concentration (or even an order of magnitude more), and see if it's detectable in a triangle test.

To answer the question, I've also use acids/acid blends (Saniclean) and chlorine dioxide (Star Xene), but they also foam to some extent.

Chaz
04-06-2014, 12:08 PM
We use paracetic acid.

brewmaster 2011
04-06-2014, 12:15 PM
I use Dyno-Mite from Birko Co. It is a low foam iodophor 10 min cycle to make sure it hit all spot. You should never rinse after a sanitation/sterilization cycle.

d_striker
04-06-2014, 01:04 PM
I use Dyno-Mite from Birko Co. It is a low foam iodophor 10 min cycle to make sure it hit all spot. You should never rinse after a sanitation/sterilization cycle.

I've always been in the no-rinse camp as well. I was just getting a little nervous after I opened a fv after SIP one day and noticed the huge pile of foam in the cone that wouldn't drain.

kererubrewing
04-06-2014, 01:24 PM
We use PAA at 0.1% to 0.5% depending on what's being sanitised.

Junkyard
04-06-2014, 01:58 PM
we use star san, or sani-clean (which is supposed to be less foamy but isnt really.


dont fear the foam....

wailingguitar
04-06-2014, 03:43 PM
PAA, specifically Birk-Ox, though I have also used Loeffler's and a couple other companies'... just whichever is convenient/priced right.

I have never used Star San, but have been told that the foam breaks down into something good for yeast growth so not to worry about it. That being said, I still used PAA because anything that foams can result in pump cavitation if the level is low, etc

brewmaster 2011
04-07-2014, 08:53 AM
I've always been in the no-rinse camp as well. I was just getting a little nervous after I opened a fv after SIP one day and noticed the huge pile of foam in the cone that wouldn't drain.

How Long between SIP and knockout into the FV?

a10t2
04-07-2014, 09:30 AM
I've been worried about using PAA without a rinse. Are my oxidation fears overblown?

wailingguitar
04-07-2014, 11:07 AM
I've been worried about using PAA without a rinse. Are my oxidation fears overblown?

Completely… it's an extremely common no-rinse sanitizer in breweries… maybe the most common. No worries, great stuff, have been using it for about 20 years

d_striker
04-07-2014, 03:11 PM
How Long between SIP and knockout into the FV?

Depends on the brew day. Anywhere from 1-5 hours.

d_striker
04-16-2014, 12:51 AM
Wow. Thanks Brian.

Lighthouse
04-16-2014, 09:15 AM
If using PAA, get some test strips from La Motte and really dial your usage rate in.

PaulT
04-16-2014, 09:48 AM
Wow, Brian... if I could like/up-vote your post, I would. Very well put.

We're still in the planning phase, but good to have this kind of information handy when we setup our cleaning/sanitization process. :)

Thanks!

dick murton
04-21-2014, 02:28 PM
I will add just a couple of comments

I hate the use of iodophors for terminal sanitisers because (a) as stated, they foam, which means they leave residues if not rinsed off with sterile water, and (b) they need to be rinsed because, and I speak from experience, they can lead to off flavours of similar character to chlorine residues from say hypochlorite (so called chlorophenolic taints), and (c) as already stated, they can and do corrode stainless steel - again from experience, I could have had showers from the leaks induced by pitting corrosion from iodophors, and (d) the residual smell of iodine in tanks can be enough to taint beer and corrode steel, even after rinsing the surfaces.

The big problem with rinsing any sanitiser is that the water must be commercially sterile, but whilst I know most people would agree with the comment PAA does not need to be rinsed off, there are increasing numbers of brewers / breweries / cider mills that have come to the conclusion that they have detected adverse taints, not straightforward oxidised beer (trans 2 nonenal / cardboard / papery) but from oxidation of other beer flavour compounds. Personally I can't say I have, but then I admit to spending my life installing new kit, not in the sample room, and don't consider myself a taster with highly sensitive palate (which is why I keep drinking rubbish!!)

A potential problem with PAA is when used in cold room tanks as the effectiveness of biocidal action is very temperature dependent, and needs long contact times of hours to be as effective as say 10 minutes at 20 C. Having said that, most bright beer tanks I have experience of in the last 20 years or so have used PAA, and even at zero C (because they are in a cold box) because it is a "polishing" sanitiser, have not experienced problems. Any infection is brought in by the beer, the majority is washed away with the pre-rinse, more is killed by the detergent, and only a very small amount is left for the sanitiser to work on, before the tank is re-infected by fresh beer, normally after passing through KG filters!!