Dry yeast growth?

[CharlosCarlies]

As a smallish, new brewery we've been using dry yeast until we're brewing enough to properly manage a liquid strain. So far we've been really happy w/ the fermentation characteristics and flavor profile (S-05 and W-34/70); however, we've been getting really inconsistent amounts of growth which is making re-pitching really difficult. I'm wondering if part of it is we're just punching through the yeast so we've been working on ways to throttle things back a bit when harvesting, but shouldn't we be getting a very similar amount of yeast mass post-fermentation as you would with a liquid strain all things being equal?

For example, today we tried pulling from one of our standard gravity lagers that's been crashed for a few days and was only able to collect 20-30# from a 20 BBL batch after dumping the bottom/dead yeast layer. Other times I've been able to get near 70-80# even before crashing. Really hate when I can't make sense of something!

Cheers.

[CharlosCarlies]

And FWIW we are not adding O2 to the first pitch. According to Fermentis this shouldn't make a difference, but perhaps there's something we're missing.

[soia1138]

And FWIW we are not adding O2 to the first pitch. According to Fermentis this shouldn't make a difference, but perhaps there's something we're missing.

From what I've seen adding O2 does still make a difference. I get a more active ferment and a better pH drop when adding O2 to a dry yeast pitch. Also rehydrating about an hour prior to wort makes a big difference.

[wailingguitar]

While I have found rehydration of dry yeast pretty much superfluous, aeration does make a noticeable difference in lag reduction. Pitching dry without O2 I am looking at not starting until the 2nd day after pitch, aerating, I see active ferment when I come in the next morning

[AnthonyB]

To help avoid punching through the cone, use a smaller hose size. On our 7 BBL fermenters, 5/16" ID hose and a few PSI of CO2 head pressure makes harvesting really easy. We go fairly fast in the beginning when we're getting rid of the dark brown junk and when it turns creamy, we throttle the valve a bit to slow it down for bucket filling.

[CharlosCarlies]

Interesting in regards to the O2 because we did aerate our very first batch and now that I think about it, the lag time was a little shorter. Definitely going to give that a try again for the next couple brewdays considering how cheap/easy it is to test.

Also a good idea w/ the smaller hose. We've been reducing it to 1/2", but might try going even smaller. We also have a TC diaphragm valve on the way, so hopefully that helps regulate the flow a bit more as well.

Thanks guys appreciate the quick feedback!

[Bainbridge]

Yeah, slow and steady wins the race. If the cone has been dumped earlier (settled trub and whatnot's now gone) I like to go:

Cone valve -> 1" Sight Glass -> Valve -> 3/8" hose -> brink.

You can throttle the two valves each halfway for more precise control on your yeast flow.

Recently though I've been trying:

Cone valve -> 3/8" hose -> sight glass -> 1" T -> brink valve OR off from the T to a second 1" valve -> dump hose

That way you can sanitize and purge everything, hook it up, dump out the bottom crap, fill brink with pretty yeast, once it turns powdery, switch back to dumping. Got a very nice pitch off a 10bbl of Wyeast Kolsch today.

[WoodlandBrew]

Biomass yield is generally proportional to the gravity of the beer. Do you see any correlation between gravity and the amount you harvest?

[barleyfreak]

Bumping this thread since I recently had problems pulling a hole through my lager yeast harvest (attempt). I am curious about the smaller diameter hose to the brink and if that is really necessary when counter pressure filling the brink? For those using CP to harvest into brinks, what diameter hose do you use? I have recently changed my procedures and actually have a LARGER diameter hose to the brink, but I am CP filling and have the capability of having it come out at a virtual crawl. The problem I had with pulling a hole through the cake was that I pulled the initial bottom gunk from the cone out and straight into a discard bucket and only AFTER that did I set up the CP. It worked really well with my ale harvests. It was a FAIL for the lager harvest.

So I am going to change my CP to pull out the initial throwaway yeast into the brink under CP, then push it back out and down the drain. Then harvest to the brink slowly under CP:

1) bottom valve > sight glass> T>
2) BF valve off T
3) 1" hose from T > BF> brink bottom
4) Brink lid is T with BF valve and pressure gauge
5) pressurize brink to same, or slightly higher psi than FV
6) open up brink bottom BF full
7) open up FV bottom BF slowly, to full
8 ) the yeast should slowly start crawling out, controlled by slowly letting gas out of brink (slowly, for sure)
9) when the yeast looks right (for me that's after pulling ~10lbs, or a gallon or so), close FV BF and push discard yeast back out of the brink through the bottom valve T BF and discard
10) re-pressurize and start the slow pull under CP

Works really well, even with a larger diameter hose. At least with my ale harvests.

[barleyfreak]

If you can't manage a liquid pitch - why ask the question? You won't be around long enough to hear the answer.

Thanks for the snark, that was really helpful. Just in case someone else feels inclined to pile on, I am doing just fine, thank you very much. This is the only harvest fail in 190+ yeast harvests in 3 years and it simply made me curious to improve my technique, or learn something I didn't which is one of the best things about this forum. No doubt you have nothing left to learn. All hail!

[soia1138]

Thanks for the snark, that was really helpful. Just in case someone else feels inclined to pile on, I am doing just fine, thank you very much. This is the only harvest fail in 190+ yeast harvests in 3 years and it simply made me curious to improve my technique, or learn something I didn't which is one of the best things about this forum. No doubt you have nothing left to learn. All hail!

I'm pretty sure he was responding to the OP but yeah it was a useless response just the same.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[barleyfreak]

I'm pretty sure he was responding to the OP but yeah it was a useless response just the same.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

LOL, yeah, I get that now. It didn't make much sense. Moving on.

[Brewberosa]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a brink valve?