Filtration Recommendation

[newbuffalo]

Filtration Recommendation

We’re working on the jump from a contracted beer to brewing everything in house. One of the last pieces of equipment were having trouble settling on is a filter, if any is needed. Right now we plan on doing kegged only beer for 12-18 months and then installing the canning line. We are running 60bbl tanks and currently plan on running a 5msq DE filter only. Several brewers in the area look to be using DE between the FV and the Brite then go straight to kegs. A few use the DE between FV to BT and then again from the BT to the filer.

Our equipment supplier wants to run at minimum a DE and a plate and frame filter. I’m not a real big fan on the plate and frame set up. A guy north of me runs Pall 16” Supradisc and he swears that we don’t need any DE filter at all.

Yet other have told me no filter is needed period.

Right now a centrifuge is out of our price range so I have dropped that as a possible solution.

Advice is welcome!

[Jim Russell]

Good and bad things about every type of process and you might have other factors playing into this that might affect your decision

DE is the benchmark for cost per bbl, on average we have seen customers with about $0.18/bbl

Pads can run about $0.60/bbl or up on average depending on primary or secondary filtration use, some customers can drive this down to $0.18-0.28/bbl with proper consulting and pad selection

Lenticulars in primary filtration after fermentation is $1.00/bbl and goes up quick. If you read the thread just below this a brewer is doing 3-4 batches(100 hl) on a 4x16 lenticular set-up and that's was the average or good runs. my math might be off but thats 3.88/bbl abouts. In polishing after DE or centrifuge this should be better...

http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?32739-Strange-filtration-issue

Cartridges aren't used mostly in primary, but follow depending about the same price model as a lenticular. These are mostly used before kegging and bottling

the only other thought on this is ROI, return on investment for capital purchases and the offset cost on consumables. if you are a 5k bbl / yr and you have to offset a $5,000.00 capital purchase ...

Would love to hear what others think and might be doing from a costing standpoint

Some other thoughts would be ease of use, footprint for equipment , labor to run, quality (lack of DO, beer loss, etc), couple more but its early ..

number and costs for above are all on my experience, Probrewer has a great community and there should be a ton of info here


Cheers

Jim Russell

[newbuffalo]

Mr. Russel,

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Running the math we are getting much worse results on the pad filters. We have heard allot of really good things about the Pall Supradisc 2 systems, but it looks like an average cost of $5.5 per/bbl which seems very very high. We figuring 4 uses per pad, so a cost of $330+shipping per 60bbl batch.

DE is seeming like the way to go just to clean it up a little bit more before it goes into the keg. We're finding allot of brewers aren't filtering at all claiming improved aroma (and capital savings up front). It looks like in a 30bbl I could lose a couple of bbls of beer and end up at the same point as the supradisc filter for cost.

Bill

[dick murton]

You are asking the wrong questions first.

The first question has to be - is you contracted out beer currently filtered?

If so, the chances are, you will need to filter otherwise people are going to notice a change in quality, and if they don't like beer that is not crystal clear, will move on to someone elses beer.

If the beer is filtered, is the quality as you want it to be? If not, why not? You don't want to use the same system as your contractors, which is only capable of supplying variable of poor quality beer.

If the beer is not filtered, do you think you will improve sales by filtering it, or at least some specific brands? If so, you need a filter. If not, then you don't.

The consider the batch sizes and frequency of filtering batches. There are loads of discussions here about filter types for different batch sizes.

What sort of quality are you wanting to end up with, simply bright, but not sterile, or sterile? Again, the filter types will depend on this decision. Are you looking for long shelf life, i.e. good haze stability, or is this for keg beer only, with say a few weeks storage / dispense life, which only most consider therefore only needs to be bright, not sterile.

Having sorted that lot out, go to suppliers to get prices, both capital and revenue. Make sure you include all the ancillaries - KG and filter pad storage, wash off, disposal of spent materials, back flush, CIP & SIP requirements, and make sure you cost all of those in. KG (plate & frame, horizontal leaf, candle), lenticular, sheet and cartridge filters all have their place depending on the answers to the above sort of questions. Oh, and if you hope to expand in a year or twos time, consider the possible future volumes and manning. What works now might be unsuitable in a couple of years time. You may wish to consider having slightly oversized plant for a year or two, and save the hassle and expense of changing everything so soon.

[dick murton]

I meant to say, a centrifuge unless you buy a VERY high speed one, will almost certainly not produce beer as bright as a KG / lenticular / sheet filter. Forgot to say, that if you filtering 60 brl tanks, personally I think KG P&F or horizontal leaf filters are the only way to go (unless you can afford cross flow!!).

Don't forget to allow for deaerated water and in line chillers in your system if this is what you end up going for.