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Glycol Header Size, Are We Missing The Mark?

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  • Glycol Header Size, Are We Missing The Mark?

    We are finishing build out on a brew pub, and are preparing to purchase our ABS cool fit piping for our glycol lines. I am going to describe what we are ordering and what our glycol demands are. I would love to hear some opinions on the set up, particularly regarding our header size.

    The Fermenters:

    Four double jacket 7bbl fermenters to be used to ferment ales between 68 and 72 F. 15 PSI rating
    They will be placed in an air conditioned space that will be kept at approx 70-75 F at any given time.
    Crashing will happen on no more than 2 tanks at any given time, temperature will be decreased 2 to 5 degrees at a time, down to 34 F.
    Jacket inlets are 3/4" NPT threads.

    The Chiller:

    5 HP JC Younger chiller, factory refurbished. 3/4" npt threaded outlet and return expanded to 1" ball valves.
    The chiller will be placed in our mechanical room that will be ventilated and air conditioned.

    The Glycol lines:

    We are considering 1 1/8" ID ABS supply and return headers.
    Supply drops and returns will be 1" ID vinyl braided hose.
    Each supply (4 total) will have a 1" solenoid valve that is connected to a temperature control panel.
    The supply and return will have air bleeders at the highest points.
    There is a bypass valve at the end of the supply line set to 14 PSI.
    The lines are set up in a first in last out loop.
    We are considering 1" throttle valves between the solenoids and tanks, but are unsure if they are needed.


    Cheers

  • #2
    Considerations

    This type of glycol loop with the circulation well at atmospheric does not and should not require air bleed devices. The persons who are using them out there are attempting to solve design inadequacies in their loops. Air bleeds are only necessary on " Closed " loops and special or unusual cases.

    Balancing valves belong at the outlet of whatever your heat exchanger is, so if used, they are positioned on your jacket outlets, not after the SV which would be in the inlet side.
    Warren Turner
    Industrial Engineering Technician
    HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
    Moab Brewery
    The Thought Police are Attempting to Suppress Free Speech and Sugar coat everything. This is both Cowardice and Treason given to their own kind.

    Comment


    • #3
      Four double jacket 7bbl fermenters to be used to ferment ales between 68 and 72 F. 15 PSI rating
      They will be placed in an air conditioned space that will be kept at approx 70-75 F at any given time.
      Crashing will happen on no more than 2 tanks at any given time, temperature will be decreased 2 to 5 degrees at a time, down to 34 F.
      Jacket inlets are 3/4" NPT threads.


      Based on some rule of thumb flow estimates:

      Each 7 Bbl Vessel will require approx 5 GPM per jacket- 10 GPM per vessel
      4 Vessels = a maximum flow requirement of 40 GPM.
      Design Flow factored at .70 of Maximum flow = 28 GPM

      No wort Cooling or Cold Liquor Tank?
      Are you planning to expand or up size these vessels in the future?

      We wouldn't recommend 1" Header Piping for any application that requires more than 20 GPM. For this application, I'd encourage you to definitely look at going up to 1.25" or even 1.5" Pipe. Keep in mind that much of the Glycol Piping cost is for the installation, pipe supports, and insulation.

      The size of the piping drops and solenoid valves seems fine, in fact you could probably get by with 3/4" Control Valves. Isolation valves ahead of the solenoid and on the return are highly recommended.

      I'd confirm with your chiller manufacturer that glycol pump is adequate for your needs- the 3/4" connection size definitely warrants the question being asked.

      We have a quick video on our "tech tip" page that walks through some glycol sizing tips and suggestions. You'll find this video at the bottom of the page.

      I agree with what Warren is saying about air bleeds, but they are definitely an asset to help remove the initial air from the system- having air trapped in the loop is unfortunately a pretty common issue.

      I wish you the best on your new venture, hope this is helpful.

      Jim VanderGiessen
      Pro Chiller Systems

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jimvgjr View Post
        Four double jacket 7bbl fermenters to be used to ferment ales between 68 and 72 F. 15 PSI rating
        They will be placed in an air conditioned space that will be kept at approx 70-75 F at any given time.
        Crashing will happen on no more than 2 tanks at any given time, temperature will be decreased 2 to 5 degrees at a time, down to 34 F.
        Jacket inlets are 3/4" NPT threads.


        Based on some rule of thumb flow estimates:

        Each 7 Bbl Vessel will require approx 5 GPM per jacket- 10 GPM per vessel
        4 Vessels = a maximum flow requirement of 40 GPM.
        Design Flow factored at .70 of Maximum flow = 28 GPM

        No wort Cooling or Cold Liquor Tank?
        Are you planning to expand or up size these vessels in the future?

        We wouldn't recommend 1" Header Piping for any application that requires more than 20 GPM. For this application, I'd encourage you to definitely look at going up to 1.25" or even 1.5" Pipe. Keep in mind that much of the Glycol Piping cost is for the installation, pipe supports, and insulation.

        The size of the piping drops and solenoid valves seems fine, in fact you could probably get by with 3/4" Control Valves. Isolation valves ahead of the solenoid and on the return are highly recommended.

        I'd confirm with your chiller manufacturer that glycol pump is adequate for your needs- the 3/4" connection size definitely warrants the question being asked.

        We have a quick video on our "tech tip" page that walks through some glycol sizing tips and suggestions. You'll find this video at the bottom of the page.

        I agree with what Warren is saying about air bleeds, but they are definitely an asset to help remove the initial air from the system- having air trapped in the loop is unfortunately a pretty common issue.

        I wish you the best on your new venture, hope this is helpful.

        Jim VanderGiessen
        Pro Chiller Systems
        Thanks Jim,

        Just spoke with the folks from JC Younger. They said that the pump can handle up to 1.5", but would be the happiest with pipe between 3/4" and 1.25". The group that had the chiller before us reported minimal issues with 1" pipe for a similar set up, but we were wanting to be sure, I'll take this info . We will plan on expanding down the road, in which case we will likely be upgrading our chiller and all piping. We will pick up some additional ball valves as needed.

        Thanks for the help!

        Comment

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