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  • Gas vs. Electric

    Gents,

    I'm considering a gas vs electric 10bbl brewhouse. Does anyone have some general power consumption figures to brew a batch? CCF vs. Kilowatts per hour consumption?

    Steve

  • #2
    Originally posted by steveirving View Post
    Gents,

    I'm considering a gas vs electric 10bbl brewhouse. Does anyone have some general power consumption figures to brew a batch? CCF vs. Kilowatts per hour consumption?

    Steve
    I've heard that anything over 3.5 gallons electric is a massive amount of power you are going to have to pull through your wires but I haven't done the math myself.

    Comment


    • #3
      I know on my 10 bbl system I have a 400kbtu/hr burner that i run at 50% capacity until boil and 20% to maintain it. The hlt runs at 100%. So about 200 cfh on the kettle and 400cfh for the hlt. Electric is not an option for us, our gas bill is not even half of what our electric is. I would bet you would need 100a 3 phase just to run the kettle.

      Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

      Comment


      • #4
        We have a 10bbl electric set up. HLT and BK both have 4 15kw elements. We have a 480v feed, and I built the panel to only have one tank on at one time with a selector switch. I also set it up to use 2 elements per switch. I can bring 310+ gallons to a boil with 2 elements no problem. This system is overkill power wise, but it works for us and will only use all 4 elements most likely in the winter.

        If you only have a 240 feed to your building, I would not go electric. High voltage = less amps = less cost(thinner wire/less kw). Lower voltage = higher amps = more cost(MUCH THICKER WIRE/More kw)



        Hope that helps

        Comment


        • #5
          I've been looking for more systems that run on 480v but it seems like most are in the 240 range. What do you have, or did you build everything yourself? I agree that 480V is the way to go.

          Originally posted by CrabbeMan View Post
          We have a 10bbl electric set up. HLT and BK both have 4 15kw elements. We have a 480v feed, and I built the panel to only have one tank on at one time with a selector switch. I also set it up to use 2 elements per switch. I can bring 310+ gallons to a boil with 2 elements no problem. This system is overkill power wise, but it works for us and will only use all 4 elements most likely in the winter.

          If you only have a 240 feed to your building, I would not go electric. High voltage = less amps = less cost(thinner wire/less kw). Lower voltage = higher amps = more cost(MUCH THICKER WIRE/More kw)



          Hope that helps

          Comment


          • #6
            We have a 3bblelectric and it is fed with on 180F demand hot water (gas heated). So we are kinda both, and only use electric to heat to boil and maintain boil.
            If we were to do 10bbl, we would run two on demand hot water heaters in series (so ~ 9 gal/min 180F water).
            Or, our Plumber suggested using exchangers in the kettles (using gas heated steam) which would quickly and cheaply heat the water. You could put them in both the hlt and bk, and only run electric in the bk to get the wort from 200F to boil.
            It seemed like an interesting idea, but I haven't heard of anyone doing anything like that.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            • #7
              If you have natural gas, go with gas. If you're forced to use propane (like us), it becomes a more difficult decision.

              Our electrically-heated 18 bbl HLT uses 108 kW, 240V 3-phase, drawing 45 A. I have no idea what the weekly duty cycle is, but the HLT runs continuously when brewing--because it's under-sized for our 20 bbl brewhouse.

              Raising the voltage to 440/480 V will reduce costs due to lower Amperage allowing use of smaller wires and contactors, but does not reduce the Wattage--Watts=Volts X Amps in a resistive circuit, so Volts go up, Amps go down, but Watts--overall power consumption and what you pay for--stays the same.

              3-phase saves on wiring, as half the number of wires are required for the element array, but otherwise, there's no difference in a resistive circuit.
              Last edited by TGTimm; 03-29-2016, 10:13 AM.
              Timm Turrentine

              Brewerywright,
              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
              Enterprise. Oregon.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                If you have natural gas, go with gas. If you're forced to use propane (like us), it becomes a more difficult decision.

                Our electrically-heated 18 bbl HLT uses 108 kW, 240V 3-phase, drawing 45 A. I have no idea what the weekly duty cycle is, but the HLT runs continuously when brewing--because it's under-sized for our 20 bbl brewhouse.

                Raising the voltage to 440/480 V will reduce costs due to lower Amperage allowing use of smaller wires and contactors, but does not reduce the Wattage--Watts=Volts X Amps in a resistive circuit, so Volts go up, Amps go down, but Watts--overall power consumption and what you pay for--stays the same.

                3-phase saves on wiring, as half the number of wires are required for the element array, but otherwise, there's no difference in a resistive circuit.
                With 480V you will have lower demand charge. In my area you pay usage and demand charges.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good point. Our electric bill simply confuses me to the point of a grinding headache!
                  Timm Turrentine

                  Brewerywright,
                  Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                  Enterprise. Oregon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Demand charges are typically calculated by looking at the peak kWh used over 15 minutes, kWh doesnt change with voltage or amps, it only changes with the load. Even with lower demand charges, natural gas doesnt even come close in cost to electric. As was said before, if you can get natural gas, use it, if you cant, make sure you can afford the electric bill. Have an electrical engineer do the calcs for you, don't do it yourself if you do not understand calculating loads for a 3 phase system.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      10bbl electric

                      Originally posted by dboe View Post
                      I've been looking for more systems that run on 480v but it seems like most are in the 240 range. What do you have, or did you build everything yourself? I agree that 480V is the way to go.
                      Hi,

                      Did you ever find out what 10 bbl system they were using?

                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Electric Vs Propane

                        Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                        If you have natural gas, go with gas. If you're forced to use propane (like us), it becomes a more difficult decision.

                        Our electrically-heated 18 bbl HLT uses 108 kW, 240V 3-phase, drawing 45 A. I have no idea what the weekly duty cycle is, but the HLT runs continuously when brewing--because it's under-sized for our 20 bbl brewhouse.

                        Raising the voltage to 440/480 V will reduce costs due to lower Amperage allowing use of smaller wires and contactors, but does not reduce the Wattage--Watts=Volts X Amps in a resistive circuit, so Volts go up, Amps go down, but Watts--overall power consumption and what you pay for--stays the same.

                        3-phase saves on wiring, as half the number of wires are required for the element array, but otherwise, there's no difference in a resistive circuit.
                        Im in the same situation of overpriced $1.45 a gallon propane. Im considering going electric, but there is so much i dont know about it and initial cost is a lot higher to do that. Im putting in a 10 BBL system. Do you have the BK running on propane? Is it steam or direct fire? How much do you spend on power and propane in a month?

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