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  • US-05 Issue?

    Hello - a new brewery here that's been open for just a few months. We've just started having very phenolic off-flavors in some of our beers - band-aid, medicinal, smoky - and have had trouble identifying the issue. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

    The strange thing is that it only seems to effect the beers that we use US-05 dry yeast for (about half of our lineup). When we go through the same procedure using US-04, we do not have any of this off flavor from what we can tell. We are carbon filtering all of our brewing water, so I don't think it's chlorine/chloramine that's the issue. We had success with US-05 for the first couple of months and are just now having this issue. If contamination were the issue, I would think it would affect all of our brews equally - unless US-05 is just more susceptible to contamination for some reason.

    We're at the point where we're seriously considering paying more for WLP001 or WY-1056. I'm curious to see if anyone has had a similar issue before. Thanks in advance for any/all comments!

    Cheers,
    Eric

  • #2
    Hey eMart85, could you please give some more info on your pitch rate, temp etc.?

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    • #3
      We're a 3BBL system, pitching 250g of US-05 and running fermentation in our jacketed conicals at 68°F. The last couple of times this has happened it has been a new brick of yeast. We also very recently started oxygenating our wort slightly in-line, which seems to have no effect on this off flavor.

      We'd recently started "hydrating" by drawing a gallon of wort off the boil into a sanitized glass jug, cooling it quickly in a chilled water bath, and mixing the yeast in with some nutrient on a stir plate prior to pitching. I believe we've had this issue both with this method and with a simple dry pitch, however.

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      • #4
        3 bbl system? Does your kettle have an electric heating element?
        Hutch Kugeman
        Head Brewer
        Brooklyn Brewery at the Culinary Institute of America
        Hyde Park, NY

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        • #5
          Sounds to me like you are maybe under pitching your yeast, and something gets into the beer while the yeast is trying to grow and it's takign too long. Or maybe you have some sort of an infection in your chill plate that needs cleaning?

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          • #6
            Thanks everyone for the responses...

            Yes, we do have electric heating elements in our HLT and brew kettle - could that be causing an issue?

            We've been trying to overpitch by a little bit - typically 200g is what we're calculating for a 3BBL batch with SG around 1.050, we're pitching 250 (1/2 a brick)

            We typically run Starsan through our plate chiller each brew day prior to running wort through, and will backflush with cold water for a while afterward. Any recommendations on a good cleaning procedure for the plate chiller? I'd like to avoid having to take it apart, but we will if we have to.

            I just got off the phone with a Fermentis rep, who noted that US-05 is a slower growing strain than US-04, so it is possible that we have a contamination somewhere and the 05 can't "outcompete" quite like the 04 can.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by eMart85 View Post
              We typically run Starsan through our plate chiller each brew day prior to running wort through, and will backflush with cold water for a while afterward. Any recommendations on a good cleaning procedure for the plate chiller? I'd like to avoid having to take it apart, but we will if we have to.

              My money is on this procedure being your problem. You need your hex to be perfectly clean if you are going to chemical sanitize, and I don't know that I'd trust star san for the job anyway. What is far better than chemical sanitation for a heat exchanger is heat. Run 180F water through the hex for 20 min, early in the brew day and then let it cool down before you start running off. This will sanitize effectively even if it isn't perfectly clean because the heat penetrates below the surface of soil deposits, which chemical sanitizers cannot.

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              • #8
                Do some searches on the discussion boards here. There are discussions about electric heating elements causing a smoky burnt character in beer if they are not vigorously cleaned. And by "vigorously" I mean heavily scrubbed and possible scraped clean. I've never had and electric kettle, but I know several brewers who have had this problem in the past. One of them recommended taking a paint scraper to the element to get the burnt residue off.
                Hutch Kugeman
                Head Brewer
                Brooklyn Brewery at the Culinary Institute of America
                Hyde Park, NY

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by kugeman View Post
                  Do some searches on the discussion boards here. There are discussions about electric heating elements causing a smoky burnt character in beer if they are not vigorously cleaned. And by "vigorously" I mean heavily scrubbed and possible scraped clean. I've never had and electric kettle, but I know several brewers who have had this problem in the past. One of them recommended taking a paint scraper to the element to get the burnt residue off.
                  Electric Brewing Q&A section

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eMart85 View Post
                    Thanks everyone for the responses...

                    I just got off the phone with a Fermentis rep, who noted that US-05 is a slower growing strain than US-04, so it is possible that we have a contamination somewhere and the 05 can't "outcompete" quite like the 04 can.

                    I concur with this. About 6 months ago I had a single batch of wort that I split into two fermenters. One I pitched S-04 and the other US-05. I pitched the same amount of yeast in each fermenter, properly rehydrated with previously boiled water from the same flask.

                    The S-04 ale came out fine, the US-05 had the aforementioned phenolic quality - almost a Belgian character that became more pronounced over time. The S-04 had a substantially shorter lag time and was really going to town v.s. the US-05. I believe that my cleaning regimen on my counterflow chiller at the time was inadequate and I picked up something there that the S-04 was able to squash while the US-05 was unable to do the same.

                    Anyway, just my 2 cents. I do use an electric kettle for my pilots but I keep the elements squeaky clean and do not believe that I had issues there.

                    Kyle
                    Last edited by OakBrook; 06-02-2015, 11:34 AM. Reason: correction

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                    • #11
                      Thank you all very much, this was VERY helpful! Sounds like we may have a wort chiller contamination problem, but I'm going to clean our heating elements right now as well. I'm very grateful for the wonderful responses!

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                      • #12
                        I think just about all the things that could cause this has been covered. I would skip the rehydration procedure for now, to avoid contamination in that step, pitch dry at about 72.5 to 73, leave for a couple of hours and then set your FV to your desired fermentation temp.

                        There is also allot of info on this forum about chemicals and procedures for cleaning and maintaining your brewhouse.

                        Cheers

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                        • #13
                          For what it is worth, We use US-05 as our house yeast as well. Never had any strong phenol throw offs. Use it for a wide variety of beers. Typically using 500g for a 10 BBL pitch so you are good on pitching amount. We rehydrate with 80 deg F sterilized water and let it hydrate for about 30-45 min before pitching. This set-up with inline oxygenation gives us about a 12 hour lag time with it really taking off about the 36 hour mark.

                          I also would suspect your issue is in your HX. As much as it is a pain I would recommend taking it apart looking for solid chucks inside. Then give it a good clean and get a strainer for the input side. While whirlpooling will limit the amount of trub into the HX some inevitably will still get in and a strainer will still help prevent it. Make sure you are using a good quality caustic and sanitzer at a minimum. I would find a chemical company to consult and work with to find the right chemicals for you.

                          Hope this helps

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                          • #14
                            Having Same Problem with US-05

                            I have been using US-05 as a house yeast for along time. I pitch 1000 grams (2 bricks) for a 15 bbl batch and have never had a problem until my last batch. I pitched 2 new bricks that I rehydrated in sterile water then pitched into oxygenated wort. Fermented at 67 F. I pack my heat X with chemical between batches and burn it out with 180 F water before knock out. Beer has a slight phenolic almost Belgian flavor to it. I wont repitch this yeast and now I'm a bit hesitant to use US 05 again. That my input.

                            Corey Nebbeling
                            Brewer
                            ThumbCoast Brewing Co

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CRN View Post
                              I have been using US-05 as a house yeast for along time. I pitch 1000 grams (2 bricks) for a 15 bbl batch and have never had a problem until my last batch. I pitched 2 new bricks that I rehydrated in sterile water then pitched into oxygenated wort. Fermented at 67 F. I pack my heat X with chemical between batches and burn it out with 180 F water before knock out. Beer has a slight phenolic almost Belgian flavor to it. I wont repitch this yeast and now I'm a bit hesitant to use US 05 again. That my input.

                              Corey Nebbeling
                              Brewer
                              ThumbCoast Brewing Co
                              Anyone have any batch numbers/date codes from problematic S-05 new block pitches? I have some incoming right now. Don't often use it. Never had an issue before with this strain. Thanks.

                              Pax.

                              Liam
                              Liam McKenna
                              www.yellowbellybrewery.com

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