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Anybody use a utility auger or Flo-jet 4" auger for a nano brewery?

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  • Anybody use a utility auger or Flo-jet 4" auger for a nano brewery?

    I'm looking at this:



    I have about a 6' rise to the mash tun. I have a Monster Mill Pro Mill that I want to build with a big hopper that will drop the grist right into the auger hopper and dump right into the mash tun.

    My brewery is designed as a one man operation, Dumping 10; 5 gallon buckets of grain per beer gets real old 2-3 times per week.

    Thanks,

    JC
    JC McDowell
    Bandit Brewing Co.- 3bbl brewery and growing
    Darby, MT- population 700
    OPENED Black Friday 2014!

  • #2
    I'm trying to figure out how to do the same on a 3bbl brewhouse.

    Comment


    • #3
      One thing to consider - an inclined auger will never really empty of grain. We always run our specialty grains first and then all the pale malt, so that in theory the grain left in the auger is all pale malt. With a 4" auger and ~15' of run at an incline, I'd guess you'd have about 25-30# grain left in the auger after every run.
      Linus Hall
      Yazoo Brewing
      Nashville, TN
      www.yazoobrew.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lhall View Post
        One thing to consider - an inclined auger will never really empty of grain.
        Good point. What about a bucket elevator? I've seen small ones used in packaging lines for tortilla chips and whatnot. In some ways they're better, as there's no grain damage. Most of the ones I've seen are designed for grain, and are non-sparking. If it's just a short vertical lift, that's what they're designed for. A similar solution might be a drag conveyor, which works like a bucket conveyor, but drags the grain up a trough. However, they're limited in the incline they can handle. I could swear I once saw a drag conveyor mounted in a tube that worked like an auger, but was chain driven, which would let it go much steeper. I can't find it now, though. It might have been at a trade show.

        Regards,
        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Ugh- 5 gallon bucket are still looking like the most efficient solution for my scale (2.5 bbl).

          I have a monster mill pro 3 roller mill that likes like it will work great. I have 17' ceiling which make attaching anything that high a pain.

          My average brew is about 10 buckets of grain. Right now it takes maybe 20 minutes to mash in by hand and use a big whisk to mix up the grain for dough balls.

          I just worry about man power wear and tear over the long run. We are working toward serving tanks instead of kegs because of the effort required to move and stack full kegs by one man in our tight space.

          Material handling might be a more difficult problem to solve in nanos than in larger brew systems because it is 'right' on the verge being man handled.

          I welcome any creative ideas.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          JC McDowell
          Bandit Brewing Co.- 3bbl brewery and growing
          Darby, MT- population 700
          OPENED Black Friday 2014!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jcmcdowell View Post
            Ugh- 5 gallon bucket are still looking like the most efficient solution for my scale (2.5 bbl).

            I have a monster mill pro 3 roller mill that likes like it will work great. I have 17' ceiling which make attaching anything that high a pain.

            My average brew is about 10 buckets of grain. Right now it takes maybe 20 minutes to mash in by hand and use a big whisk to mix up the grain for dough balls.

            I just worry about man power wear and tear over the long run. We are working toward serving tanks instead of kegs because of the effort required to move and stack full kegs by one man in our tight space.

            Material handling might be a more difficult problem to solve in nanos than in larger brew systems because it is 'right' on the verge being man handled.

            I welcome any creative ideas.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

            Well, at that size, what about using one of those keg lifts? There's a manufacturer that advertises here. http://discussions.probrewer.com/sho...light=keg+lift It seems like it would maneuver well in a tight space.

            You could probably build a grist case for it (or use a small poly conical, or even an actual keg with a gate on the bottom, since that's what it's designed to lift), raise it up over the MT, and let 'er rip. I think I've seen similar pneumatic lifts too.

            This will at least have the advantage of being able to double as a keg lift.

            Depending on your layout, maybe you can use a small jib boom to lift it (wall mounted ones are available from Harbor Freight), or a trolley and chain hoist hanging from the ceiling structure (17 feet is not so high a powered chain hoist would be a pain). I was looking to do the same thing with a jib boom and chain hoist, but my ceiling is 11 feet, and there not so much room under the hoist.

            Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting ideas!


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              JC McDowell
              Bandit Brewing Co.- 3bbl brewery and growing
              Darby, MT- population 700
              OPENED Black Friday 2014!

              Comment


              • #8
                20 Gallon Brute

                I crush my grain into 4 20 gallon brutes. Easy enough to dump into the MT.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm still wrapping my head around a nano with the need for an auger... Buy pre-crushed base malts and dump 'em in. Mill specialty grains into a 5 gallon bucket.
                  Kevin Shertz
                  Chester River Brewing Company
                  Chestertown, MD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To rise six feet, try a shop vac, I did some consulting for a nano, they hung the thing from the ceiling on a sling, and just dumped it every time it got full. Don't worry about some grain getting crushed, it's going to get milled anyway...
                    Worked fine.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ChesterBrew View Post
                      I'm still wrapping my head around a nano with the need for an auger... Buy pre-crushed base malts and dump 'em in. Mill specialty grains into a 5 gallon bucket.
                      No Bueno-

                      Pre milled grain is good for about 6 days. We buy grain by the pallet load from 2 different sources. One for Montana 2 Row and another for specialty grains which may account for as little as a few pounds per recipe. The shipping per pallet minimum is about $250 bucks.

                      The 'desire' for an auger is to simplify operations for a completely one man operation without suffering fatigue and injury after brewing 120 batches of beer in less than 10 months.

                      Between lifting 10 buckets of grain and filling, moving, and stacking 5 kegs of beer per batch- I had such severe tinnitus that I couldn't shake hands.

                      I can make decent money as a 2.5bbl nano- only if I keep labor costs down and work smart. It's better to reinvest money in labor saving improvements than pay workers compensation or hospital bills- or worse yet not be able to brew and run out of beer.

                      Even the flex auger package cost is cheaper than hiring an employee at minimum wage for a year to mill and dump grain.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      JC McDowell
                      Bandit Brewing Co.- 3bbl brewery and growing
                      Darby, MT- population 700
                      OPENED Black Friday 2014!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by forrestmz3005 View Post
                        To rise six feet, try a shop vac, I did some consulting for a nano, they hung the thing from the ceiling on a sling, and just dumped it every time it got full. Don't worry about some grain getting crushed, it's going to get milled anyway...
                        Worked fine.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        Interesting- maybe replace the shop vac compartment with a funnel that dumps right into the mash tun.

                        I'll do some tests with that idea. I'd like to have the mill dump into a shop vac hose that vacs the milled grain up to the mash tun and just dumps it right in. Maybe a little loud but....


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        JC McDowell
                        Bandit Brewing Co.- 3bbl brewery and growing
                        Darby, MT- population 700
                        OPENED Black Friday 2014!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The funnel won't work since the shopvacs container needs to be shut and sealed to generate vacuum, they had a pretty large one, around 20 or 25 gallons, so they would vacuum the grist, and dump it to the mash tun. They were planning on putting trap door in the bottom to dump so they would not have to tip it over. I'm sure that would work. Just put the end of the vacuum tube in the grist bin, and you can operate from the top. Switch on till half full, switch off, dump, and cycle till al grain is in mash tun.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jcmcdowell View Post
                            No Bueno-

                            Pre milled grain is good for about 6 days. We buy grain by the pallet load from 2 different sources. One for Montana 2 Row and another for specialty grains which may account for as little as a few pounds per recipe. The shipping per pallet minimum is about $250 bucks.

                            The 'desire' for an auger is to simplify operations for a completely one man operation without suffering fatigue and injury after brewing 120 batches of beer in less than 10 months.

                            Between lifting 10 buckets of grain and filling, moving, and stacking 5 kegs of beer per batch- I had such severe tinnitus that I couldn't shake hands.

                            I can make decent money as a 2.5bbl nano- only if I keep labor costs down and work smart. It's better to reinvest money in labor saving improvements than pay workers compensation or hospital bills- or worse yet not be able to brew and run out of beer.

                            Even the flex auger package cost is cheaper than hiring an employee at minimum wage for a year to mill and dump grain.
                            Understandable... we're not going to buy 2-row by the pallet and instead use it the week it arrives. For at least the first year, it makes more sense for us to pay more for pre-milled instead of the cost of creating a dedicated mill space.
                            Kevin Shertz
                            Chester River Brewing Company
                            Chestertown, MD

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jcmcdowell View Post
                              Interesting- maybe replace the shop vac compartment with a funnel that dumps right into the mash tun.
                              That's basically how a commercial dust collector works. You've probably seen them hanging off the eaves of a factory before. However, the funnel part is under vacuum, so the units like you're describing either have a collector chamber that's also under vacuum, or they have a weird airlock valve at the bottom that looks like a revolving door turned on it's side. As it rotates, it maintains a seal with the vacuum chamber, but moves the solid material out the bottom into a chute that goes into whatever they're dumping to.

                              This actually seems like a pretty good idea: you could conceivably make a cyclone unit that simply sits on top of the mash tun, with a neoprene seal around the top, held in place by vacuum. This means MT would be under vacuum as well. The shop vac connects to the cyclone (the shop vac doesn't need to be hanging up in the air, just the cyclone does), and when you're done milling, turn off the vacuum and rap the side of the cyclone a few times to knock anything left behind down in. I think it would probably pull out the flour dust and send it to the shop vac, and let the milled grain fall in to the MT.

                              Something like this homemade cyclone, but instead of being mounted to a bucket, it would simply sit on the MT, and be held there by vacuum:

                              Click image for larger version

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                              There are a couple of essential features to a cyclone collector: A tangential inlet. The vacuum outlet is in the very center of the top. There is an internal cylinder that comes down past the tangential inlet to keep the airflow on the tangential inlet from getting diverted straight into the outlet. Hard to describe, but google "cyclone dust collectors". Oneida makes a lot of them used in the woodworking industry. I used to have a 7.5 HP unit with an integral fan that would suck the chrome off a bumper, as they say. I gave it to a woodworking friend, and he uses it to this day, hard plumbed to every machine in his shop. Metal ducting is safer than plastic, but run a bare copper wire on the inside length of any plastic parts, and solidly ground it.

                              If you try this out, be sure to post back. I'm very interested in the outcome, as I don't like lifting any more than you do, and I believe this would work extremely well.

                              Regards,
                              Mike Sharp
                              Last edited by rdcpro; 10-11-2015, 04:50 PM. Reason: clarification

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