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  • Yeast Propagator Sizing

    I'm trying to wrap my head around what size of a yeast propagator I need if I have the following:

    30bbl Brew House
    30bbl FV X 1
    60bbl FV X 4
    90bbl FV X 2


    Or

    60bbl Brew House
    60 FV X 4
    120 FV X 2

    I would probably only have 2 yeast strains in house. I understand yeast pitching rate is based on slurry concentration, but I still can't figure out how big of a propagator I would need.

    For instance: If I get a 30bbl brew house, I would need Xbbls to supply the 30bbl FV. Then when I double batch to fill the 60bbl, I couldn't brew the second batch until the next day to give the yeast time to build up, so it was enough of a cell count to toss the next 30bbl of wort on top of it.

    Is there some sort of a calculation to decide what size propagator you need?

  • #2
    How small of an amount of yeast are you planning to propagate up from?

    I've never run a 30 or 60bbl brewhouse but why don't you just buy a 30bbl pitchable quantity of yeast to start with, then go cone to cone with it for as many generations as you're comfortable taking it? If you plan your brewing schedule well you won't miss a beat.

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    • #3
      Cone to cone would be a good idea to start with, but eventually it's not cost effective.

      I'd like to start with just a 5 gallon smack pack, although that may take like 2 weeks for it to get up to a 30bbl patchable size.

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      • #4
        wow, smack pack to 30bbl.

        curious as to why you don't see cone to cone yeast pitching as cost effective?

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        • #5
          This is why I would do it:
          30bbl pitchable costs roughly $700 to get it. Then you get 10 generations out of it, roughly $70/batch.
          Take a 5 gallon pitch at $9, grow it to 30 bbl at not more than $200 for materials to produce the wort needed for growth and now its $21/batch over the life of the yeast. Grow it yourself=better margins, makes business sense when you're big enough to support the equipment. Also allows you to run more strains if you want because it is cheaper than buying a full pitch each time you brew.

          Its more steps, and more chance for contamination, but when done right, it is better.

          For a propagator size, you would probably need 1-2bbl tank.

          Comment


          • #6
            This makes sense, however I think that with 10 generations you should be able to easily get more than 10x 30bbl batches, especially on the setup described. once you go from the lab culture into a 30bbl tank you should have enough to pitch into a 60bbl tank, then you should easily be able to go to the 90bbl or 120bbl tanks on just 3 generations, in effect 6-7x 30bbl batches in 3 generations. It can continue to multiply from there.

            You can certainly apply this same logic to the cost of propping it up yourself from a smack pack and yes it will be cheaper, but it ends up being a matter of a few dollars per batch when you really scale it. To me it's worth the extra 10$ or 15$ in 30bbls to just start with the pitchable amount, but I can totally understand not wanting to go that route. Especially if you have a nice lab and great propagation equipment and the time to do it.

            And yes, I would agree that a 2bbl tank would be a good size for your application.



            Originally posted by jebzter View Post
            This is why I would do it:
            30bbl pitchable costs roughly $700 to get it. Then you get 10 generations out of it, roughly $70/batch.
            Take a 5 gallon pitch at $9, grow it to 30 bbl at not more than $200 for materials to produce the wort needed for growth and now its $21/batch over the life of the yeast. Grow it yourself=better margins, makes business sense when you're big enough to support the equipment. Also allows you to run more strains if you want because it is cheaper than buying a full pitch each time you brew.

            Its more steps, and more chance for contamination, but when done right, it is better.

            For a propagator size, you would probably need 1-2bbl tank.
            Last edited by TonyT; 10-13-2015, 02:17 PM.

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            • #7
              Also allows you to run more strains if you want because it is cheaper than buying a full pitch each time you brew.
              This is the main reason we've looked into it...especially since we've been brewing a lot of saisons and 3711 doesn't floc worth a damn no matter what we've tried.

              Also could be cost effective if doing a lot of high gravity brewing w/o enough tanks to pull from consistently. We run into this fairly often w/ our Doppelbock and have to cut a healthy culture short since I don't feel comfortable re-pitching from an 8%+ beer.

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              • #8
                These are all great responses. Thanks.

                Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how many strains I can run, while being able to keep at least a 30bbl patchable rate stored somewhere.

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                • #9
                  Yeast Propagator Size

                  Parameter Value Unit
                  Batch Size 35 Hectoliter
                  Wort SG 12 ° Plato
                  Pitching rate 1,000,000 Million cells/ ml / ° Plato
                  Slurry Concentration 0.8 Billion cells / ml
                  Pitching Volume 52.5 Liters


                  Wort Available

                  35 x 100 = 3,500.00 Liters of wort

                  3500 x 1000 = 3,500,000.00 milliliters of wort

                  3.50E+06 milliliters of wort

                  Pitching Goal

                  12 x 1000000 = 12,000,000 Million cells / ml


                  3.50E+06 x 12000000 = 4.20E+13 Cells


                  Volume of Slurry to Pitch

                  42,000,000,000,000 = 52,500 ml
                  800,000,000

                  = 52.5 Liters




                  In your case for a 30 bbl (35 HL) brewhouse you would need 52.5 Liters or 115.5 Lbs of slurry yeast to pitch a 30 bbl fermenter, for a 60 bbl fermenter 231 Lbs and for a 90 bbl fermenter 346 Lbs of slurry yeast.

                  To size your propagator:

                  52.5 Lt x 20% (Extra yeast) = 63 Lts x 2.2 Lbs/Lt = 415 Lbs to pitch a 90 bbl FV

                  415 Lbs / 282 Lbs/bbl (Weight of the slurry) = 1.5 bbl

                  1.5 bbl x 30 % Head space in propagator = 1.95 bbl Size of the required propagator.

                  If you harvest yeast from a 90 bbl FV, it is possible to obtain around 900Lbs of slurry yeast, so if it is saved in a 4 bbl propagator you will be able to pitch 2 fermenters or more depending on their size.

                  Why is better to use a propagator:
                  1. The yeast is washed.
                  2. Is possible to estimate the amount of yeast to pitch after a spin down to avoid over pitching.
                  3. Can prevent any contamination from one tank to another.




                  References:
                  A. White Labs
                  B. Wyeast
                  Last edited by Fausto Yu-Shan; 10-24-2015, 03:44 PM.

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                  • #10
                    prop

                    we have a 3bbl prop. it's the GW kent thing. it's really just a small fermentor. Our brew house is 50bbl but we do 30,40, and 60bbl batches. FVs are 60,80, or 120.

                    if your lab work is clean you can start with pure isolate culture from a streak on a dish.
                    We also work with 3711, and don't brew the beer often enough to keep the yeast moving forward. It's always in house prop from isolated colonizes on a YPD streak plate. Most breweries this size don't have an incubator/shaker for the step ups to get to the size you need to pitch your prop. you can expect 2x10^8th or 200million yeast cells per mL from something like 1272 or 3711 in the propegator when you pitch the prop with something like 7.5x10 or 7,500,000 cells per mL and use 8-12 plato "sterilized"(60m boil low hop product dilute if needed) wort in your prop.

                    that's (log(200,000,000/7,500,000) / log(2)) which gives you just about 5 generations and that grows to that in about 2 days at 20-21C

                    200million cells per mL with 3bbl (3,500,000ml)= 7x10^14th total cells in your prop
                    that's enough cells to pitch most of what you're doing likely


                    for all the step ups to get from your homebrew vial or culture slant you'll want to use autoclaved media and good lab sterile technique to keep the critical stages safe.

                    also you should get at least 15-20 generations out of your yeast easily if plays well with harvesting, and of course your cleanliness being there.
                    Last edited by Yeast; 10-21-2015, 08:28 PM.
                    I hope I encouraged you!

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