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  • Contamination in Bottle?

    Hello,
    For an old batch of Pale Ale fermented with s05, I took the bottom of a bottle and put in microscope. I observed the following long shaped yeasts instead of the typicall round shaped yeast cells. FG was under expected in bottle ( 1003 instead of 1009) and it was overcarbonated.
    Could the cells in the image be some wild yeast or brett?
    Thank you
    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Originally posted by Harri_Espiga View Post
    Hello,
    For an old batch of Pale Ale fermented with s05, I took the bottom of a bottle and put in microscope. I observed the following long shaped yeasts instead of the typicall round shaped yeast cells. FG was under expected in bottle ( 1003 instead of 1009) and it was overcarbonated.
    Could the cells in the image be some wild yeast or brett?
    Thank you
    [ATTACH]27381[/ATTACH]
    That's not s05 I would say its wild
    I hope I encouraged you!

    Comment


    • #3
      Quality Control

      If you have not brew any other type of beer using a different yeast to produce a sour beer, then I may consider a bacteria contamination.

      Without a bacteria detection test and more information about your sample is a bit difficult to say with precision the bacteria contamination you may have, however, by the rod shaped of the organism present in the picture, I would suspect is a bacterial contamination of some kind and depending on the by products or off flavors shown that you may notice, than I would analyze carefully the possible phase in the brewing process were it may be introduced, such as the water, ingredients, equipment, etc..

      home brew, home brewing, beer ingredients, homebrew, beer kits, beer equipment,brewing equipment



      Have you analyzed the water?
      Last edited by Fausto Yu-Shan; 10-27-2015, 10:08 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Fausto Yu-Shan View Post
        If you have not brew any other type of beer using a different yeast to produce a sour beer, then I may consider a bacteria contamination.

        Without a bacteria detection test and more information about your sample is a bit difficult to say with precision the bacteria contamination you may have, however, by the rod shaped of the organism present in the picture, I would suspect is a bacterial contamination of some kind and depending on the by products or off flavors shown that you may notice, than I would analyze carefully the possible phase in the brewing process were it may be introduced, such as the water, ingredients, equipment, etc..

        home brew, home brewing, beer ingredients, homebrew, beer kits, beer equipment,brewing equipment



        Have you analyzed the water?
        there's no bacteria in that micrograph. Even at 1000x phase contrast magnification no bacteria looks like that. But yes you still need to do a test to determine bacteria if present. It's hard to find them microscopically without phase contrast unless you stain your sample or it's absolutely loaded with contamination. Those are definitely yeast in the picture they appear to be no brewing yeast at least that I've seen. They're most similar to 3711 but its not that either.
        I hope I encouraged you!

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        • #5
          Microorganisms

          Well my intention is to help the Spanish Brewer solve his problem and not to cause any dispute of any kind, as well don't like to diagnose a problem been far away from the site and without all the appropriate information.

          Click image for larger version

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          I know it can be wild yeast as said before by the panelists, since beer is around 90% water and after eliminating all the possible causes I would test the water to determine any presence of microorganisms in it as shown in the attached picture.

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          • #6
            Ey, thank you guys for your answers. I am waiting for some gram kit to determine if there is some bacteria in. To determine which kind of yeast could be I would try to do some selective culture media. As here in spain we run out of specialized brewing lab suppliers, I would try to do my best by adding some nonfermentable sugars to agar plates and see if there is any wild yeast growing in it.

            Enviat des del meu G620S-L01 usant Tapatalk

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Harri_Espiga View Post
              Ey, thank you guys for your answers. I am waiting for some gram kit to determine if there is some bacteria in. To determine which kind of yeast could be I would try to do some selective culture media. As here in spain we run out of specialized brewing lab suppliers, I would try to do my best by adding some nonfermentable sugars to agar plates and see if there is any wild yeast growing in it.

              Enviat des del meu G620S-L01 usant Tapatalk
              If you have access to brewery media, see if you can get Lin's wild yeast media. Though some brewers yeasts will grow on the media like 3711 all traditional ale yeast will not. Crystal violet if you can get it will inhibit your brewers yeast while letting wild yeast grow. if you want to plate to find your wild yeast you need to inhibit the brewers yeast or it will confound your results.

              As for the bacteria
              Click image for larger version

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              here's lactic rods in comparison to the yeast. The picture yu-shan included isn't relative to what you would see under your microscope. The image I attached is a phase contrast image, with just plain brightfield microscopy you would have a hard time seeing the bacteria, you would only really see the yeast and the silhouette of the bacteria. Of course staining lets you use brightfield microscopy to see bacteria though, and it's what was used before phase contrast microscopes were invented.


              Harri_Espiga your original picture you uploaded was at 400x magnification?
              Last edited by Yeast; 10-27-2015, 02:47 PM.
              I hope I encouraged you!

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              • #8
                EspaƱa

                Knowing Spain because I lived there before, I know that the brewer at Cerveza Espiga will find the probable causes of his concern.

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                • #9
                  help from Lallemand/ Siebel Institute

                  Hi,
                  My name is Caroline and I am the East Coast US Rep for Lallemand Brewing. If you would like I am happy to put you in touch with the right people to help with your issue. We offer Micro Services and analysis including DNA testing, or I could get someone to look at your picture and provide some insight. We also sell different medias if you would like to run your own tests. Please email me at cparnin@lallemand.com. I am happy to get you in touch with people who can get you answers!
                  Cheers,
                  Caroline Parnin
                  Lallemand Brewing
                  Siebel Institute of Technology

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