magic blue potion

[mr.jay]

So, the other day I'm cleaning my lines, like I do every 2 weeks. First the cleaner, then the rinse, then the sanitizer (maybe an acid wash every now and then). The "Bud man" showed up, all decked out like a Nascar racer to clean his lines with his magic blue potion. I had a little convo with the fellow (nice guy, by the way. Apparently, all the Bud employees in that county are former retired prison C.O.s). Anyhoo, a shot of that stuff, followed by a quick rinse was all he did. He was finished in about 20 minutes. I asked him what that stuff was that he used, and he didn't know. Then I got to thinking, is it necessary to go through all of the steps we do to clean our lines? Is there not a product that can do it all in one step? After I change my daughter's diaper, I rinse my hands, scrub with a bar of soap (that cleans, and sanitizes my hands) then rinse again. It seems to do the trick. I don't have to soak my hands in a sodium-based alkali cleaner, wash, then soak in a seperate 4 log reduction sanitizer solution. Is there not a magic potion for us craft brewers, too? I understand the importance of these seperate steps for a F.V. or Brite tank CIP, but those things get nasty with beerstone, calcium deposits and yeast scum, and I have the ability to run an aggressive cycle for 40 minutes. The cleaner I use in the lines just sits there. I'm skeptical that is even doing anything. So why go through all the trouble with the lines? If a one step solution is good enough for "the king", why not us. I know, I know, they pasturize and filter their beer. But he cleans the other lines, too, including the Paulaner Heffe. Does anybody have anything to say about this? I've read other threads, and realize that most of you go through the same steps I do. I'm just trying to give y'all something to think about

[RobZamites]

Good food for thought there, Mr. Jay. I, too, have pondered why beer line cleaning is nearly as intense for brewpubs as the CIP cycles on fermenters and serving tanks!
Bring us the Magic Blue Potion™ !

[rafters_brewer]

I have been using DAC (Double Alkaline Cleanser) from Crosby and Baker for years. Its a combination of Potasium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide. Send it through the lines, let it soak in, and rinse heavily with water and the lines turn out pretty clean. I supplement that with the acid cleaning several times a year and haven't had any problems. Whether this is the magic bullet similar to Bud's cleaning solution, I couldn't say for sure, but I've been pretty happy with my lines...

[Rosie]

Beer Line Cleaner

I think this stuff is pretty much standard in the UK. The colourant being used as a guide to when it has been completely flushed from the lines...here is a sample data sheet:

BLC link

Cheers,

[davidmeyers]

Forgive me, but aren't NaOH and KOH basically the same thing? My understanding is that commercially, they are virtually interchangable. What would be the purpose of combining the 2?

[rafters_brewer]

Forgive me, but aren't NaOH and KOH basically the same thing? My understanding is that commercially, they are virtually interchangable. What would be the purpose of combining the 2?

I couldn't say for sure and a quick google didn't help. Apparently the magic blue potion is also a combination of NaOH and KOH with a small amount of Chlorine as well. Adding dye to the solution makes a lot of sense- I spend a lot of time 'feeling' the rinse water, waiting for the alkaline slime to go away.

[mr.jay]

Clorinated caustic, eh? Hmmm. I use that very product in my brewery for other applications. Perhaps I'll begin using it on the lines! It's not blue, but it sure is magic if it's all I need besides a rinse. Thanks!

[BMOOR]

sanitizer?

How many people actually pull a sanitizer through the lines? Some of the time? all of the time? never? I haven't in 6 years at 3 pubs. No problems to speak of?? MAybe someone could set up a poll (since I'm not sure how)-because I'm just curious. Please sound off if I need to change my line cleaning practices.
For what it's worth I currently use a line cleaner from Banner Equipment. Two step-one acidic and one caustic. Use a different one each time you clean. colored red and yellow. rinses easy.

[beertje46]

Poll is up.

How many people actually pull a sanitizer through the lines? Some of the time? all of the time? never? I haven't in 6 years at 3 pubs. No problems to speak of?? MAybe someone could set up a poll (since I'm not sure how)-because I'm just curious. Please sound off if I need to change my line cleaning practices.
For what it's worth I currently use a line cleaner from Banner Equipment. Two step-one acidic and one caustic. Use a different one each time you clean. colored red and yellow. rinses easy.

http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5759

Enjoy!

[JoeV]

KOH / NaOH the same?

Well National Chemical (they make some blue potions) say that KOH is less agressive on faucet parts and so on and also rinses more easily. On a side note when oils are saponified by either of the two KOH makes a liquid soap, while NaOH makes a solid soap, so I guess they are at least a little different.

[Moonlight]

One step is just fine in my view. If you can see into your beer lines (clear) you can see if there's beerstone or just crap that isn't getting cleaned. If it doesn't look good, that you're not doing enough. Hotter solution cleans best. Twenty minutes in and out for a cleaning with good solution is way plenty.
The color is due to at least one person suing because they claim to have been served a pint of line cleaner and thought it looked like beer enough to drink...

[GarySped]

Beer lines, sanitizer and poisoned individuals.

Yes it is very important to clean your beer lines and a colored solution helps to ensure lines are clear after the cleaning. Do test the first pint though yourself. One story in the UK many years ago - two or three guys order the same beer after work at their local and one takes a swig and heads for the toilet. The other fellow sipped his and continued enjoying his beer. That first chap got a dose of line cleaner - but his pint was just enough to get the residuals out so his mate was not affected. Due diligence in cleaning as in everything is a must to prevent making customers ill or worse having then sue you. Be forewarned.

[Larry Horwitz]

You don't necessarily have to run caustic, acid, and sani in your lines all of the time...but every once and a while it is a great idea. I have seen ATP tests of our keg cleaner in action that actually show sanitary conditions after just a good hot caustic cycle.

the issue for us (brewpub) is that we often put products through the lines with tons of protein, yeast, flavoring, etc., that major light lager products would never have...hence our dirtier lines and the increased need for rigorous cleaning. Also, if you are using iodophor for sanitizing it also has an "aroma reducing" effect.

no such thing as too clean IMO

[Moonlight]

Also, if you are using iodophor for sanitizing it also has an "aroma reducing" effect.

no such thing as too clean IMO[/QUOTE]

IMHO that is "too clean."