HLT brownish discoloration

[ScottD50]

So my 1998 DME combi tank HLT inside is staining a brownish color. We have softish water with higher bicarbonate at 129. We treat the HLT with lactic acid to decrease PH and also treat with gypsum or calcium carbonate depending on the style of beer. We filled over the weekend with pbw at 140 degrees to soak but today it didnt remove any of the color. . This is the manway and the inside looks just like it.


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[ScottD50]

Any ideas what it is and how to get rid of?


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[Rooh]

Looks like iron or manganese staining. Get rid of it with lots of Citric acid or lots of elbow grease.

Cheers,

Rich DeLano
rich@thebrewinglair.com

[ScottD50]

Thanks, any idea where it came from? Is it my water or water treatments?


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[Rooh]

Its in your water. Have your water tested for Ferrous Iron and Manganese. These are in solution, they really can't be filtered out unless they are oxidized, which will generate precipitates that are then filterable. I use an Iron Breaker to take care of this issue at our brewery. I would probably use a elbow grease and a bunch of scotch brite pads to get the build up off, then passivate with citric acid. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Rich DeLano
rich@thebrewinglair.com

[ScottD50]

Will do. And thanks. Is it the heat in the HLT? My CLT doesnt have this. Will start scrubbing tomorrow.


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[Rooh]

Yes, heat and O2 will cause these metals to precipitate. I bet if you look at the water in side of you HX you won't notice much, but the water out side will have the same staining as the hot liquor tank.

Cheers,

Rich DeLano
rich@thebrewinglair.com

[TGTimm]

Be sure you don't have any problems with galvanic conflicts in your water system. A classic is copper pipe coming off of a galvanized pipe from the curb. Electrical isolation is a myth--you need to be sure all metals in your water system are galvanically similar, or you're putting iron into solution--and eventually, dissolving any iron plumbing in the system.

Phosphoric acid in bulk is cheaper than citric, and will remove those stains. A phosphoric/nitric mix will be even better, as it will re-passivate the SS in the process. Talk to your chemical supplier.

[ScottD50]

thanks,
I spoke to Dana at Birko and used his acid brite #2 then cell r master protocol but it didn't touch the color thru the CIP/sprayball. I took out the sprayball and scrubbed it with barkeepers friend and it took off the staining in less than a minute. I don't want to scrub the inside of the HLT with barkeepers friend??? Do I?? Or should I scrub the inside with acid brite #2 (phosphoric/nitric blend) even though it didn't touch the stain on the sprayball when I tried to scrub it.

still looking.

thanks
Scott

[Rooh]

Just scrub the whole tank! Then repassivate. I used to get in my hot liquor tank often to scrub until filtering for Fe / Mn. Cheers, Rich

[Journeyman50]

Rich--thanks. I guess my question now is too scrub with what. I tried scrubbing the spray ball with the acid blend and it didnt do anything to take off the brownish stain/color. Then just to see i used some barkeepers friend on the sprayball only and it took most of the stain off immediately. Im ready to jump in and scrub-- just want to use the correct stuff and everyone pretty much says to keep barkeepers friend out of the inside of tanks. I will probably hound every chemical supplier on the floor of cbc in DC.


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[beerguy1]

My chemical supplier will come to the brewery then take a sample it is then burned and the color of the flames will tell them what the material is then the correct chemical can be custom mixed to attack the solution. I agree with everyone else NO barkepers friend. Try several different caustics and acids full strength. Apply them to a dry surface and let them run down the sides in different areas one of them will work. I suspect you didnt have enough concentration of solution to soften and or dissolve the material that is sticking to your tank

[ScottD50]

thank you. I appreciate everyones advice. And this is for my own sake. Is there a reason not to use barkeepers friend or naval jelly or anything like that inside a brewing tank? I see where everyone says not to---and I'm not-- curious as to the reason.

thanks

[Rooh]

Scrub it with scotch brite pads. I would not want to be in the tank with chemicals!

Cheers,

Rich

[beerguy1]

thank you. I appreciate everyones advice. And this is for my own sake. Is there a reason not to use barkeepers friend or naval jelly or anything like that inside a brewing tank? I see where everyone says not to---and I'm not-- curious as to the reason.

thanks

Well as far as me, those are chemicals that can carry over to beer off flavors