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Temperature per foot/meter & HLT/Fermenter ???

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  • Temperature per foot/meter & HLT/Fermenter ???

    Hey all,
    Have a two part question here.

    Part 1:
    There has to be some kind of rule of thumb calculation for temperature loss per foot/meter for running hot water through a pipe or hose. I understand how Stainless Steel pipe, Copper pipe, and Novaflex hosing (chlorobutyl) will all expel heat at different rates. Then outside temps, thickness of the hose/pipe, and rate of flow must also be factored in. But is there an equation or calculator of sorts around for this? I'm looking at moving the HLT into a different room to save room in the brew area, and I would like to know what kind of heat loss I'd be looking at per foot/meter.

    Part 2:
    Because our HLT is too small for large batches, we've been heating up all our Hot Water in the BK and transferring to the Mash, then dumping the rest in the HLT for sparge. It works, but adds extra legwork to the brew day, which I'd like to streamline. So I've been thinking about using the *Fermenter du jour and getting rid of the HLT (the actual tank) altogether (which will free up quite a bit of space in the hot side of the brewery). This can theoretically be accomplished by using a commercial On Demand tankless hot water heater (one that is capable of going to 180ºF and most likely a 300+ btu unit) and recirculate the water in the Fermenter du jour to the needed temp for mash (Likely 160ºF minimum). I can setup a flow control valve to turn off the given tank when it hits my desired temperature, which in turn will turn off the On Demand. I can blend with cool water in the mash tun to get my desired temp when step mashing.

    The simplified process would go something like:

    Fill cleaned/prepped Fermenter with predetermined amount of water necessary to mash/sparge
    --> recirculate water in fermenter thru On Demand Water Heater to needed temp (165ºF or higher)
    --> transfer portion of water in fermenter to the mash tun (to mash)
    --> use remaining water in fermenter to sparge
    --> Fermenter is now empty & fairly sanitized
    --> Quick Sani rinse (just to make sure)
    --> Fermenter can now accept cooled wort from BK
    --> Ferment

    Is anyone doing this? The fermenters are jacketed, so no issue of the heat radiating off and upsetting a neighboring fermentation. The only issue I can see would be related to distance (see above). I'm looking at about 50 feet/15 meters distance from the fermenters to the Mash Tun. And before anyone asks, On Demand units don't seem to be able to raise the temp to 180º and have a fast enough flow rate for a commercial brewing setup. I can also see many breweries having issues with this kind of setup, as they often put 2 or more batches into one very large fermenter. But we're currently only putting one batch per fermenter, so this would not be an issue.

    *The Fermenter du jour is the fermenter I'll be using that day.

  • #2
    Sounds like it would work. Our HLT is also too small, so we have it looked up to an on-demand heater. After mash-in it is near empty, so start filling back up. Have the heater set to 170 and after a ~40' run of non-insulated copper we get about 155 water. This flow rate works for us, going any higher and temp and it is too slow. This process will get the HLT ~1/2 filled by the time we start sparging. Continue filling while sparging. After sparge is complete, keep filling the HLT for next batch (we always double-brew). By the time I'm ready for my second mash-in, the HLT is full and back up to temp (~170).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by FourSonsBrewing View Post
      Sounds like it would work. Our HLT is also too small, so we have it looked up to an on-demand heater. After mash-in it is near empty, so start filling back up. Have the heater set to 170 and after a ~40' run of non-insulated copper we get about 155 water. This flow rate works for us, going any higher and temp and it is too slow. This process will get the HLT ~1/2 filled by the time we start sparging. Continue filling while sparging. After sparge is complete, keep filling the HLT for next batch (we always double-brew). By the time I'm ready for my second mash-in, the HLT is full and back up to temp (~170).
      I've thought about doing that too - just didn't know if the HLT would heat up for sparge fast enough with the on demand - good to know it does! And the fact that you double brew with that system brings a nice alternative option to the table. Is the on demand for your HLT a 200k btu or 360k btu rig?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by freysbrewing View Post
        I've thought about doing that too - just didn't know if the HLT would heat up for sparge fast enough with the on demand - good to know it does! And the fact that you double brew with that system brings a nice alternative option to the table. Is the on demand for your HLT a 200k btu or 360k btu rig?
        200k. We have two, one that provides hot water to the sinks, one solely for the HLT.

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