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Crosley
03-10-2017, 11:07 AM
I currently carbonate in my fermenters and serve everything out of kegs. I am looking at adding a single jacketed brite tank to speed up the production. I would just be using this to clarify, carbonate, and fill kegs.
I hear discussions on here on running a CIP of brite tanks under pressure as a way of not wasting so much CO2. I am completely lost on this, can someone help explain this to me.

Thanks,
Andy

grnis
03-10-2017, 11:27 AM
A bright beer tank is a tank where the beer is already filtered/clarified.

But never mind that, here is how it goes:

1. Use an acid based detergent

2. Since acid based detergent has much less chemical cleaning effect, you need to compensate with mechanical effect. A high impact, high pressure rotating jet head is most common, but a rotary spray ball can suffice.

3. You can have your CIP liquid returned to your CIP tank with the pressure from the tank, but this is a waste. If you have a CIP scavenge pump, you can use that if you have a constant pressure valve set at slighlty above the tank pressure. So the scavenge pump only pumps liquid, and not gas.

4. Having the bottom of the tank filled with CIP liquid is a bad idea, since you get close to zero mechanical cleaning on the bottom part.

gitchegumee
03-12-2017, 05:29 AM
I do this all the time. Many fine acid-based tank cleaners are made just for this purpose. They can be very effective even at low temperatures in a CO2 environment. I'll never use caustic again. Having a decent CIP cart/tank with VFD and three way valves on it certainly helps. If you have this, then put your pump outlet to BBT CIP line, suction to BBT drain. Simply recirculate cleaning fluid in the CIP cart slowly, close the pump outlet/recirculation valve, crank up the pump speed, open the pump outlet/CIP line valve, pump the solution into the BBT, close the suction from the CIP tank, and then open the BBT drain. It's quite easy this way. If you don't have this arrangement, then perhaps you can see how it would work with your setup. Beware that working with pressurized chemicals is dangerous. Best to be trained by someone who knows what they're doing.

Jer
03-12-2017, 07:50 AM
I do this all the time. Many fine acid-based tank cleaners are made just for this purpose. They can be very effective even at low temperatures in a CO2 environment. I'll never use caustic again. Having a decent CIP cart/tank with VFD and three way valves on it certainly helps. If you have this, then put your pump outlet to BBT CIP line, suction to BBT drain. Simply recirculate cleaning fluid in the CIP cart slowly, close the pump outlet/recirculation valve, crank up the pump speed, open the pump outlet/CIP line valve, pump the solution into the BBT, close the suction from the CIP tank, and then open the BBT drain. It's quite easy this way. If you don't have this arrangement, then perhaps you can see how it would work with your setup. Beware that working with pressurized chemicals is dangerous. Best to be trained by someone who knows what they're doing.

Can you tell me a couple of good acid CIP detergent options Phil??

-J.

Crosley
03-12-2017, 07:54 AM
I do this all the time. Many fine acid-based tank cleaners are made just for this purpose. They can be very effective even at low temperatures in a CO2 environment. I'll never use caustic again. Having a decent CIP cart/tank with VFD and three way valves on it certainly helps. If you have this, then put your pump outlet to BBT CIP line, suction to BBT drain. Simply recirculate cleaning fluid in the CIP cart slowly, close the pump outlet/recirculation valve, crank up the pump speed, open the pump outlet/CIP line valve, pump the solution into the BBT, close the suction from the CIP tank, and then open the BBT drain. It's quite easy this way. If you don't have this arrangement, then perhaps you can see how it would work with your setup. Beware that working with pressurized chemicals is dangerous. Best to be trained by someone who knows what they're doing.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. That's somewhat what I was thinking and assumed that a CIP cart was necessary.
It looks like without a CIP cart I'm gonna just stick to my old way of opening up completely.

Thanks again.


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gitchegumee
03-12-2017, 10:57 PM
If they can't help you, then get a new one! I continue to use Five Star Acid #5 & Acid #6 with good results. Ecolab Trimeta is designed exactly for this purpose; I've found it to be very effective. I use Diversey Acidbrite 9 now also with good results, and data sheet states: "...defoamed phosphoric acid based liquid detergent...can be used under CO2 pressure or atmosphere at ambient temperatures in brewery...bright beer tanks..." I've also used Birko Ultra-Niter with positive results.

You can read more: http://www.mbaa.com/meetings/archive/2011/Proceedings/pages/P-60.aspx
and here: http://www.birkocorp.com/bright-tank-cleaning.html

Many of these, or a similar product may also be used to clean kegs. Beats caustic any day....

FRO
03-15-2017, 04:13 PM
This sounds like it could also be a good solution (pardon the pun) for cleaning serving tanks in a cold room without excessive thermal load.