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BenT
06-14-2017, 06:42 AM
Hi, All,

Does anyone have any insight into the differences between medical & industrial Isopropyl? It appears that I can get "First Aid" Isopropyl from CostCo for roughly half the price that I'm paying to get it from our chemical suppliers. Labels on both are 70% Isopropyl. The only thing I'm noticing is the industrial label says "Not for Medical Use".

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Ben Trumbo
Head Brewer
Pale Fire Brewing Co.

dick murton
06-15-2017, 07:34 AM
Depends what you are using it for. The only time I have used it was for collapsing foam when we were destroying beer, in which case it was going down the drain directly or via specia; road tanker collection - definitely not being use as animal feedstuff. So in this case, we were OK to have used industrial, not medical. This was in the days before silicones as antifoams.

I don't know of any other use isopropyl alcohol has in a brewery, so not able to say why medical grade might be essential, but obviously, open to others better knowledge / experience

wailingguitar
06-15-2017, 07:46 AM
Depends what you are using it for. The only time I have used it was for collapsing foam when we were destroying beer, in which case it was going down the drain directly or via specia; road tanker collection - definitely not being use as animal feedstuff. So in this case, we were OK to have used industrial, not medical. This was in the days before silicones as antifoams.

I don't know of any other use isopropyl alcohol has in a brewery, so not able to say why medical grade might be essential, but obviously, open to others better knowledge / experience

Lots of uses in a a brewery; Lab use for a start, I use it on the blade I cut my fresh yeast packs with, rubbing over hands and forearms when situation requires reaching into a sanitized tank (such as pitching fresh yeast), I know of some that use it in spray bottles for their sample ports (I wouldn't, but whatever), and so on.

I would also say it depends on what you're using it for.

grnis
06-15-2017, 09:05 AM
Depends what you are using it for. The only time I have used it was for collapsing foam when we were destroying beer, in which case it was going down the drain directly or via specia; road tanker collection - definitely not being use as animal feedstuff. So in this case, we were OK to have used industrial, not medical. This was in the days before silicones as antifoams.

I don't know of any other use isopropyl alcohol has in a brewery, so not able to say why medical grade might be essential, but obviously, open to others better knowledge / experience

Isopropyl at 70% is the standard chemical to disinfect surfaces such as fittings, gaskets, sample valves. Also hands (if it's in a gel format).
Isopropyl excellent penetrating abilities compared to, for example, PAA, that requires a perfectly clean surface before being applied.

BenT
06-16-2017, 05:10 AM
We're using it for disinfecting purposes. Exactly what you all have mentioned: parts, blades, fittings, gloved hands (when getting ready to handle yeast). It seems that medical might even be more appropriate for these uses. I have also heard that an additive is sometimes added to discourage drinking it. Though, I don't know it which cases.

I'm really curious as to why there would be such a large price difference. Is it a simple matter of CostCo wholesale prices? Just seems pretty radical for what would be the same, widely available product.

Ben

gitchegumee
06-16-2017, 06:15 PM
You might mean ethanol=ethyl alcohol. Used at ~80%, ethanol is a great sanitizer. It is harsh on elastomers though. Isopropyl needs no "additive" to keep anyone from drinking it. It has a disagreeable odor and is a poison. Ethanol, on the other hand must be made unfit for human consumption via an additive to avail of industrial purpose exemption from excise taxes. This is denatured alcohol.

Dirk Loeffler
06-19-2017, 04:26 PM
Hi, All,

Does anyone have any insight into the differences between medical & industrial Isopropyl? It appears that I can get "First Aid" Isopropyl from CostCo for roughly half the price that I'm paying to get it from our chemical suppliers. Labels on both are 70% Isopropyl. The only thing I'm noticing is the industrial label says "Not for Medical Use".

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Ben Trumbo
Head Brewer
Pale Fire Brewing Co.

USP grade or medical grade isopropanol is also food grade whereas industrial isopropanol is not unless it specifically states FCC or USP on the label. The alcohol in the store is a higher grade, but you should be getting better pricing from your industrial supplier. Send me an e-mail and I can quote you 4x1 gallon cases of 70% isopropanol. Ethanol requires a liquor license for selling in many states and is considerably more expensive than isopropanol. Hope this helps and you can reach me at loeffler.dirk@loefflerchemical.com.

Cheers,

Dirk Loeffler
Technical Director
Loeffler Chemical Corporation


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dick murton
06-21-2017, 09:26 AM
Thanks for the comments about usage. It's so long since I used it, I had forgotten about all the possible uses. Obviously just because the breweries I have been at have used industrial meths or other sanitisers instead.

Cheers

KenJ
06-29-2017, 06:02 AM
Hi, All,

Does anyone have any insight into the differences between medical & industrial Isopropyl? It appears that I can get "First Aid" Isopropyl from CostCo for roughly half the price that I'm paying to get it from our chemical suppliers. Labels on both are 70% Isopropyl. The only thing I'm noticing is the industrial label says "Not for Medical Use".

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Ben Trumbo
Head Brewer
Pale Fire Brewing Co.

Hi,
Isopropy?..Unless you are using it in the chem lab for HPLC or perhaps in an alcohol lab in the micro lab? Other than that, the FDA allows it for extraction purposes only for hops or on surfaces that are allow to drain and dry to <40ppm. <250 ppm as residue in modified hop extract, and <40 ppm can be found on processing equipment after adequate drainage according to the Food Additive Status list put out by the FDA.

<40ppm is pretty damn small. Ethyl alcohol is the way to go. Yes, you might need a license in your state. Yes, it's more expensive. But Isopropyl is a by product of propane production. Ethanol is what is found in your beer anyway. You are only using it to spray fittings probably, right. You are cutting the ethanol to 70% since it works better that way as a disinfectant (better that 90 or 80%). Don't be cheap. Isopropyl is hazardous and we are making a Food Product. 40ppm is damn small, while 2% ethanol is allowable in a food product according to the FDA.

See FDA Code: https://www.fda.gov/food/ingredientspackaginglabeling/foodadditivesingredients/ucm091048.htm

These are my thoughts and the FDA rules, proceed at your own peril.

Ken Jennings
Brewing Science Services

Dirk Loeffler
07-01-2017, 04:30 PM
Hi,
Isopropy?..Unless you are using it in the chem lab for HPLC or perhaps in an alcohol lab in the micro lab? Other than that, the FDA allows it for extraction purposes only for hops or on surfaces that are allow to drain and dry to <40ppm. <250 ppm as residue in modified hop extract, and <40 ppm can be found on processing equipment after adequate drainage according to the Food Additive Status list put out by the FDA.

<40ppm is pretty damn small. Ethyl alcohol is the way to go. Yes, you might need a license in your state. Yes, it's more expensive. But Isopropyl is a by product of propane production. Ethanol is what is found in your beer anyway. You are only using it to spray fittings probably, right. You are cutting the ethanol to 70% since it works better that way as a disinfectant (better that 90 or 80%). Don't be cheap. Isopropyl is hazardous and we are making a Food Product. 40ppm is damn small, while 2% ethanol is allowable in a food product according to the FDA.

See FDA Code: https://www.fda.gov/food/ingredientspackaginglabeling/foodadditivesingredients/ucm091048.htm

These are my thoughts and the FDA rules, proceed at your own peril.

Ken Jennings
Brewing Science Services

True, but we found that most customers using this product use it for spraying exterior sample valves or hose connections, etc. The product evaporates very quickly and any residue would mix with lots of beer, getting you well below the 40ppm value. I would never recommend this product for any true CIP sanitizing applications.


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UnFermentable
07-02-2017, 05:45 AM
Hi, All,

Does anyone have any insight into the differences between medical & industrial Isopropyl? It appears that I can get "First Aid" Isopropyl from CostCo for roughly half the price that I'm paying to get it from our chemical suppliers. Labels on both are 70% Isopropyl. The only thing I'm noticing is the industrial label says "Not for Medical Use".

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Ben Trumbo
Head Brewer
Pale Fire Brewing Co.

Having worked with "medical" grade industrial gasses, as well as "Zero" gasses I can tell you that the difference is almost positively the quality of the product. For instance, industry grade gasses have a threshold of other components (chemicals from machinery or lubricants), medical grade reduces that threshold significantly. Zero gas will be guaranteed to have absolutely no other molecules except the desired product. Think 99% vs 99.9% vs 99.999%. Another example would be the difference between sanitization, disinfection, and sterilization.

You pay for the insurance of quality. Most places like to produce the best product possible, so usually your getting medical grade in your other bottles anyways.

I would anticipate the same for industrial grade liquids holds true but I've never MS/GC'ed them.

UnFermentable
07-02-2017, 05:49 AM
Also, 70% is generally better than 90% for contact time, but the grade should be relatively irrelevant.

If you are using proper lab technique, you ought to be flaming off your alcohol thereby removing any remaining product.