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Brewfist
08-16-2017, 08:19 AM
http://vikingpure.com/

Has anyone else been contacted regarding using this new technology for cleaning and sanitizing your tanks?

Supposedly throw away your goggles, gloves and the like. Totally safe to touch and is MORE effective than conventional cleaners and sanitizers!

Anyone?

feinbera
08-16-2017, 08:54 AM
I'd want good answers to the following three questions:

If I can gargle with the stuff, are you sure it's gonna kill every last gnarly little brett or lactobacillus that drifts in on the air? Or at least as many as a good PAA bath?
OK, you're splitting the salt molecules up... do those streams come back together at any point in the process? If so, won't the sodium and chlorine ions just recombine and leave salt on my equipment? I mean, I guess I could see an all-gose brewery opening up in the current craft beer marketplace, but, seems like a pretty niche solution.
You're killing with chlorine... how much chlorine is left in the tank after I'm done? Do I have to worry about chlorphenols? I cannot see an all-bandaid-beer brewery opening up in any market, but I don't want to add a rinse step to my process.

TGTimm
08-16-2017, 09:34 AM
Wow, I haven't encountered so much new-speak since researching "salt-free water softening".

I hate to jump to conclusions, but....

They claim their product is safer than Sodium hydroxide (NaOH), then claim one of the products of the process is Sodium hydroxide!

This process mimics, but is not the same as that used commercially to produce NaOH and Chlorine--the Chlor-Alkali process.

The chlorine produced by the Chlor-Alkali process is co-valent chlorine, a very dangerous, highly reactive and biologically active form of chlorine.

Commercial use of this process uses vast amounts of electricity. Chlorine plants are found near the largest and cheapest sources of electricity--think Niagara Falls. I don't see plugging a little electrolysis machine into a wall socket using anything like that much juice.

Here's the Wikipedia entry on the Chlori-Alkali process: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_production

What's so nasty about NaOH? Don't get it on you. For a sanitizer, it's hard to beat Peracetic acid, whose ingredients are basically hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. Chlorinated lye contains mono-valent chlorine, much safer and less reactive.

But if you want to be the first to try it out, give it a serious trial and let us know the results.

rdcpro
08-16-2017, 01:11 PM
I'm trying to figure out Timm's joke with the coleman lantern photo. I'm sure it will hit me sometime late tonight!

It's an interesting way to generate sanitizer, I guess. The main benefit that I can see is there is no salt in the sanitizer, but no one in the brewing business uses bleach anyway (at least as far as I know). So maybe in the meat processing industry: www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/5/2/42/pdf

Also, the sanitizer it generates is hypochlorous acid, which is one of the active ingredients in household bleach. It comes from the hypochlorite reacting with the sodium hydroxide, which is why it's stable in the jug--the reaction doesn't go to completion. But hypochlorous acid will corrode stainless steel, even 316 stainless. I guess if it's rinsed off well, it might be ok. But other than the fact it's not including salt (the NaOH and HOCl are kept separated from the salt via a membrane), I don't see any advantage.

I guess I'd be comfortable with it only if I was comfortable with using bleach as a sanitizer.

Regards,
Mike Sharp

TGTimm
08-16-2017, 02:33 PM
Oops! Edited--but I hope you liked the 639 kero lantern.

rdcpro
08-17-2017, 08:37 AM
Oops! Edited--but I hope you liked the 639 kero lantern.

I did! And I've been looking for one of those squat 20l kegs... :)

TGTimm
08-17-2017, 12:01 PM
10L! Unless you want a 4 gallon capacity fount.

dick murton
08-17-2017, 12:55 PM
OK, so I have just had a look at this link. It looks very much like the same process that Innowatech in Germany have created. I have seen it in use in the UK (fruit juice bottling +), and it works brilliantly as a packaging line sanitiser for things like bottle rinsing - both prior to and post bottling, conveyor rinsing etc. as it leaves the environment slime free and reduces hugely the amount of infection build up, and reduces the infection of non pasteurised product such as fruit juices. I have used Ozone treated water for external rinses on bottle fillers / crowners, and the results are as good as ozone.

They have talked about it being used instead of peracetic acid in CIP systems, but I have not seen anywhere using it, though I understand they have got it in use in some places - presumably Germany.

Innowatech don't claim that it will replace detergent - it is a non rinse sanitiser only. So far, it doesn't seem to affect stainless - if used at the right concentrations, but perhaps if hugely overdosed........... I have to say that rather to my surprise, it is claimed to actually be cheaper to produce the sterilant than the equivalent required volume of PAA, and because you are using only NaCl, albeit a highly purified form (i.e. you cannot use domestic salt / road salt) it is very safe.

In the UK (and probably elsewhere) Aquadron, the UK agents for this stuff, sell ready generated concentrate, so you only have to have the dosing kit, and purchase quantities of the solution produced by electrolysis - so saving capital for small users.

http://www.innowatech.de/en/home/

http://www.aquadron.co.uk/

Brewfist
09-27-2017, 11:31 AM
So the major concern here is the effect it may have on the stainless steel?

Starcat
09-27-2017, 06:27 PM
http://vikingpure.com/

Has anyone else been contacted regarding using this new technology for cleaning and sanitizing your tanks?

Supposedly throw away your goggles, gloves and the like. Totally safe to touch and is MORE effective than conventional cleaners and sanitizers!

Anyone?

I have worked short term with this Tech before.
Its a high maintenance, problem prone, Reinvention of the wheel.
As thus to be avoided.


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