fining beer

[beermaker]

I am looking for some information on fining, I am attempting to not buy a new filter by reducing the load on the filter by fining, anybody have experience with products that are easy to use and might work well in my situation? I appreciate the help.

Beers,
Michael Lalli
Krebs Brewing Co.

[RobZamites]

I use Coppakleer in the kettle and Caskleer in the bright tanks (if needed). Got 'em both from Mid-America.

/I call it "Fish Guts", co-workers dare me to taste it :P

[Larry Horwitz]

Why not just get the right filter? There are quite a few small filters on the market that are efficient and inexpensive. In the long run if you are planning on buying a filter anyway it'd be much cheaper to just filter.

[beermaker]

The reason I am undecided on buying a new filter is because I want to make sure not only that I need a larger one but when I buy a larger one it is the right larger one. Here is what we current do, our brew length is 15bbls, we have 6-15bbl unitanks, 3-30bbl unitanks and 3-60bbl unitanks, 90% of all the beer we make is an unfiltered wheat beer so for now the product mix works in my favor but we are selling more and more of our pale ale and the 2 square meter horizontal leaf DE filter that’s a hold over from our previous life as a 7bbl brew length brew pub is only good for the 15’s and with care the 30’s. The filter rep tells me to figure at least 1 square meter per 15bbl’s when sizing a new filter so the quote for a 4 square meter horizontal DE filter 14,000 and 12 week lead time, the reality is if that’s what I need we may have to pony up but for now I’m proceeding with caution and toying with the fining idea.

Beers,
Michael Lalli
Krebs Brewing Co.

[NESTAFL]

Bbt?

Do you have BBT's? If so, you could have a standpipe made and fine it during transfer.

[Larry Horwitz]

Ahhhh...I see now. You already have a filter. Yeah, 2 meters is tough for what you've got. I have a 2m and I get 20bbls throught it no problem, 40 if it's lager beer with lots of age. Fine away my friend. I have had great luck with Biofine. Cask clear is great for casks...not so good in a big SVT. Gelitan also works well but not as efficient as isinglass.

process: drop all of you yeast every day 'till you need the tank. Mix up the finings (follow the directions) Add to tank. pump out of and back into tank....we come out of the bottom and back in the racking arm. Recirc untill fully mixed. Wait (2-3 days depending). Drop bottoms. Filter.

Also, use plenty of dirt for your filtration. learn how much your filter can safely hold and use that as you guide. My 2 meter DT will hold 27 pounds of dirt...(not accounting for yeast, etc) so we can get 20 pounds in there most times no problem. I've seen people try and get 20BBLs through this filter with like 6 pounds of dirt...don't shoot yourself in the foot. load up on the dirt.

good luck

[beermaker]

Thanks to everyone for the tips I'll post my results when I have them.

Michael Lalli
Krebs Brewing Co.

[ausbrewer1]

Isinglass is an effective option, but your product will become undesirable to the strict vegetarian types.

Perhaps try adjusting your DE blend and powder types, apply a 1st coat of coarse grade(preferably fluxed), then 2nd coat 1/3 fine and 2/3 medium grade DE, commence filtration with a continuous dose with medium grade DE(maybe a finer grade mixed in). A small amount of cellulose filter aid applied in the 2nd coat and continous dose can help improve your run time and reduce DE usage.

Id also look at other filtration alternatives before purchasing another DE filter, like cross-flow filtration units (not sure how cost effective the micro units are) as the safety and environmental issues associated with calcined DE are continuing to grow.

[jason.koehler]

Hi Michael!

On my both my of last two visits to Pete's when I was in Oklahoma visiting the folks I had just missed you! Funnily enough, on the second trip, Dave and Des at High Gravity mentioned that you had just left when I dropped by to visit...you're a hard man to track down!

Anyways, I've also heard some good feedback about Klarospane, do a search on it and you can pull up and old thread on it here on probrewer. We tried to get some shipped over here but it fell through...there were supply issues when we wanted it and so we decided to go a different route. We're still interested in trying it though...

Cheers!

[Larry Horwitz]

Isinglass is an effective option, but your product will become undesirable to the strict vegetarian types.

Perhaps try adjusting your DE blend and powder types, apply a 1st coat of coarse grade(preferably fluxed), then 2nd coat 1/3 fine and 2/3 medium grade DE, commence filtration with a continuous dose with medium grade DE(maybe a finer grade mixed in). A small amount of cellulose filter aid applied in the 2nd coat and continous dose can help improve your run time and reduce DE usage.

Id also look at other filtration alternatives before purchasing another DE filter, like cross-flow filtration units (not sure how cost effective the micro units are) as the safety and environmental issues associated with calcined DE are continuing to grow.

Do not put paper in your body feed!!!!!! It will make the cake unstable and compressable. Also, ALL de producers advise against blending grades of de. You paid for a particle distribution...use it or choose a different grade.

[ausbrewer1]

Yeah I cant pretend to be a expert on a small leaf DE, I only have experience with the big ones. Just assuming the theory is the same

Cellulose filter aid is dried vegetable matter which used in small amounts can prevent pitting and cracking in the DE bed and help bed formation.

A 1st coat of coarse DE(fluxed) prevents finer DE particles entering your final filtered product.
The 2nd coat or safety layer as its called ensures the first runnings run clear.

You will need to add a 1/3 blend of fine DE at least in the 2nd coat to remove majority of the yeast cells. If adding isinglass you will probably not need to do this.

The above is quite a common and effective method in large breweries, not sure of how effective it would be a on small scale.

[BigWilley]

I to have heard the line of not blending different grades of DE. In theory this is probably sound advice. In practice with an undersized filter i find it beneficial to blend. I have tried everything from one grade of DE only to one Grade of perlite, to de and perlite ...... Anyway I see the benefit of blending when trying to maximize throughput. I use a fine DE or Perlite and then body feed with high flow. This gives me acceptable clarity and maximum throughput. If straight fine grade I end up with great clarity and less throughput. Using Hyflo DE alone simply wont clear the beer. In a pinch I have blended up to four grades(including cellulose) with no visible problems. Some literature does reccomend cellulose additions to the bodyfeed with accompanying graphs demonstrating throughput increases. In practice cellulose helps me stabilize the cake not disrupt it. Im sure every situation would benefit from a slightly different mix or lack of mix. I know brewers locally who have different techniques that dont work for me and mine dont work for them. Whatever works, use it. Who cares if it isnt supposed to work.I have had good luck with biofine in the fermenters and Polyclar brewbrite in the kettle.

[Larry Horwitz]

using different grades for pre-coat and body feed is acceptable. Blending different grades for the body feed is not...and putting paper in your body feed is not only a waste of time, but it doesn't make your cake more stable. It takes up space that DE would without filtering as efficiently. Also, if you get a load on your cake for some reason (pressure pick) you will smash the paper down in the cake...shifting it and allowing yeast etc. to get by.

by using 2 different grades of de in your body feed you will fill in spaces in your cake in an unpredictable manner. You will be shortening your runs. Also, perlite doesn't filter as well (if bright beer is your goal) as DE...and Its mass is lower so you won't be able to get as much by weight in your filter.

Just 'cause something appears to be working doesn't mean it is. If you really need to maximize your filter don't take my word for it...ask your DE technical sales person.

[ausbrewer1]

Yeah we use hyflo also as a 1st precoat. Their 512 is also good for main body feed.

Ours runs go for 15-20 hours on avg, 550hl/hr using roughly 600-700kg of DE, hazes around 0.4EBC, yeast count negliable. We dont add isinglass which has been listed as a allergen in this country and dont use a centrifuge pre-filtration. We only add carrageenan to kettle turnout and a cellulose powder to the 2nd precoat to aid filtration.