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  • Plastic Kegs?

    Hello all,
    Seems to me that I remember seeing something about plastic kegs at the CBC from some UK company. Anyone heard of these, or better yet, have any experience with these?
    Thanks!
    Dave
    Dave Fougeron
    Southern Star Brewing
    Conroe,Texas

  • #2
    Plastic Keg Source

    The company that you refer to is Cypherco LTD. I have not had any experience with the kegs themselves, but did talk extensively with Simon (the owner I believe) - he's a real nice guy and has spent alot of creative thought into designing/improving plastic kegs/casks. You can get their contact info at

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    • #3
      A colleague said he spoke to someone at Cypherco in the past few weeks & they said that the plastic kegs weren't quite ready yet. The casks seem pretty decent - teething problems with the early models seem to have been largely solved, but we still often get the shives popping out & every now & again see one with a split seam (- they are made from 2 ends & a middle).

      I wonder if they're having issues with low co2 cask beer in plastic, if the pressures involved in keg beer would be even more problematic?

      I have however just seen what looked like plastic kegs on a PBST(?) ad on theis site - anyone any details?
      cheers
      Mike
      NW UK

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      • #4
        also try

        You could also try www.onewaykeg.com they have plants all over with the exception of the US for some reason.

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        • #5
          Thanks for the tip, Swiftvin.

          Oddly enough, I was talking to a fellow local brewer a week or 2 ago & I think he talked about these. I told him we were looking at brewing lager; hence keg - quite a rarity in UK microbrewing, where cask is king! He said he'd had some great beer in a plastic one way keg recently (Hobson's Mild - reigning Champion Beer of Britain).

          I think he said that it was what UK microbrewers call 'bright beer' (unfiltered beer, but fined bright in cask/tank) but because it was a quite a dark brew, the chill haze when it was pushed through a chiller couldn't be seen.

          Anyway, he said the kegs were about £15, but were one trip (neither of which sit well with my eco & skinflint credentials! - their name "ecokeg" is a bit of a misnomer, surely?)

          Re their plans for the US, the website (with its annoying slow initial pages) eventually mentions about a "First US Shipment" but this it seems is a shipment of Australian beer to the US - but what will they do with all the kegs??

          Anyway, I think we're going to look into it, especially if they are somehow re-usable, it seems to make sense for us to have a mixed population of kegs & put steels into our local trade & maybe send plastics out to wholesalers/distant accounts, etc.
          (which is exactly what my friend is doing with his mixed cask population now).
          cheers,
          MikeMcG

          Wirral, nr Liverpool, UK.

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          • #6
            Ecokegs....

            Ecokegs into the US was probably BlueTongue or Barons into the Aussie Steakhouse restaurants.

            Made from recycled plastics and designed by a former Fosters CUB.... but seem to have been in development for an extraordinarily long time...
            Head Brewer Rocks Brewing Co.
            Sydney, Aust
            scotty@rocksbrewing.com

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            • #7
              cheers for the reply. Yep, (re long development) & reports from a friend's contact with UK firm Cypherco suggest that they (Cypherco) still aren't there yet on their version.

              Anyone here used the ecokegs/onewaykegs yet?

              Any problems?

              Are they re-usable at all?

              Do you get any refund if you send the empty back? The website says something about "the keg is recyclable through normal recycling procedures" which suggests they don't take them back, but it seems a costly & eco-un-friendly way to go! (I heard £15UKP/keg - but that's not been verified yet).
              cheers
              MikeMcG

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              • #8
                [/QUOTE]

                Are they re-usable at all?
                [/QUOTE]

                have heard of a few micro's re-using.

                [/QUOTE]
                The website says something about "the keg is recyclable through normal recycling procedures" which suggests they don't take them back, but it seems a costly & eco-un-friendly way to go! (I heard £15UKP/keg - but that's not been verified yet).
                cheers
                MikeMcG[/QUOTE]

                More you put them out to recycle with your other PET Bottles and the like. As they say, developed for export to go on a boat and stay there. Breweries very seldom collect their kegs once they go OS due to the logistics, even the big kegs. The amount of 20l Chimay kegs laying around down under always make you think "why!".
                Head Brewer Rocks Brewing Co.
                Sydney, Aust
                scotty@rocksbrewing.com

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                • #9
                  Hello all,

                  I can't speak to the new generation of Cypherco firkins, and not the kegs, but we have been using the "older" firkins for a bit here. At first they seemed like a great solution to our "shipping firkins around the country and worrying about them coming home overly much" problems. But come back some do (fortunately, because they are somewhat costly), and we are experiencing massive failure at this point. Sometimes cracks around keystone or shive, that we can see and avoid using, sometimes cracks that form while driving in said keystone or shive, but more and more often, leaks from seams. We have lost a fair (large to us) amount of beer this way in the last two months. And it has been expensive high margin beer. I agree that one way plastic is not very eco friendly, but shipping steel around the US that never returns is not really economically friendly. All in all, in good faith, I cannot recommend the plastic unless used strictly as a one way package. You risk too much in loss when the reused fail. And its messy to boot.

                  Cheers,
                  Ron
                  Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales

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                  • #10
                    Hi Ron,
                    someone (Tariq from DarkStar?) mentioned elsewhere on ProBrewer about the problems of Cypherco firkins (including some legal cases going on & much debate on the www.siba.co.uk private messageboards which I've yet to have a look at).

                    Anyway after talking to my colleagues at one local brewer who have been through several redesigns, I think that while they're still imperfect (shives popping out, & someone told me they're maybe a bit lightweight to be used for beerfest gravity dispense as they move about when they're near empty!) they're much better than they were & the problems are outweighed by the benefits (cheap, lightweight, no melt-down value, difficult to be used by someone else, as they are *made* in your colours).

                    I think that in their experience CypherCo have been OK about refurbing the older split casks - have you asked them to offer a solution to your problems?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No, I haven't contacted Cypherco. The firkins are older, and have been used a number of times, and would be expensive to send back to the company for any sort of repair / reseaming.

                      With keg loss / theft such a huge problem here in the states at the moment, I would love some sort of one way solution to keg and cask beer.

                      I think the plastic keg / firkins would most likely work very well when used only once, its just with reuse that they seem to weaken and fail unexpectedly. But just using them once isn't very eco friendly either, really.

                      We use ours at festivals, and yes they can wobble a bit as they lighten, if you're not careful.

                      Not sure what the solution is for a smaller brewery wishing to ship beer great distances at this point.

                      Cheers,
                      Ron

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Plastic Casks

                        I remember this discussion a while back and this past summer we had solved some of the problems we were having. We found a shive that doesn't come out easily (white longtail plastic) and started soaking the casks in caustic solution for at least 24 hours. They are difficult to clean but problems were solved with a bit of preparation.

                        These casks although sometimes difficult to use proved to be efficient in shipping beer abroad. It also takes the worry of trying to get costly stainless casks back.

                        I hope I didn't paint a negative picture of them but we did have some problems initially, I've had some great tasting beers from Plastic casks....

                        Tariq (formerly of Dark Star Brewery...planning to continue brewing in Vancouver, B.C. Canada !)
                        Tariq Khan (Brewer/Distiller)

                        Yaletown Brewing and Distilling Co.
                        Vancouver, B.C.
                        Canada

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, definitely. The flavor is better than I ever expected to find in anything plastic, and long caustic soaks do help to clean, but the problem we are now having is unexpected failure; mostly at seams, but also random cracks, mostly in the heads, but also the sides. Most of these leaks are not immediately apparent, but show up as the beer conditions.

                          For sealing, plastic shives work well in summer months, but as we enter winter, they seem to leak more than wood, which, we are thinking, is shrinking, but also swelling at the same time. Hard to imagine, but no leaks. Or less anyway.

                          Cheers,
                          Ron

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                          • #14
                            plastic 1/6 barrel

                            well, i was seriously considering the 1/6 barrel cypherco in plastic and I think I will still stry one to see how it survives.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by chris h
                              well, i was seriously considering the 1/6 barrel cypherco in plastic and I think I will still stry one to see how it survives.
                              I'm just curious, as the probrewer volume calculator says that 0.166US Bbl = 0.119 UKBbls, but cypherco sell a (brown plastic only AFAIK) "pin" in the UK which is described as 4.5 UKgal (0.125UKBbl) - it's only about 1.5 UKpints different, but I wondered if they bothered with tooling a different volume cask :~)

                              I still recommend you give them a go, though, as they do seem to have ironed out the major problems, & Ron, I understand that shipping them back to be replaced/repaired is expensive, but I don't see why that should be at your expense! - Ask-eth & you might receive-eth?
                              cheers
                              Mike
                              who tonight has supped on cask Moor Peat Porter (lovely & roasty / choc malty, but the peat was not really to be seen), cask Theakston's Mild (not bad at all) & cask Bank's Original (fresh & OK, but bit bland) at the CAMRA National Historic Pub listed Stork Hotel, Birkenhead, Wirral, nr Liverpool, UK. FYI Wirral is now also home to a new, yet infamous pub - google "pub hitler" for more!

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