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  • Sea container cooling - storage

    Evening,
    We own two 8x16 sea containers that we plan on utilizing for refrigeration and for grain storage and milling. I will be insulating the inside of both with a closed cell spray foam. I have an email off to pro refrigeration for their input.

    I have gathered that for the grain container we will need adequate mechanical ventilation and electrical care for grain dust explosion hazards. Any ventilation systems anyone would recommend? Any suggestions for proper electrical installations of lights, outlets etc? Will proper mechanical ventilation eliminate grain dust hazard?

    On the cooler front if I insulate it well, a high efficiency condenser is what I need to cool the container right? New or used?

    Has anyone out there in forum land used sea containers retrofitted for these uses? My partner payed $2000 for each sea container. At cost I can insulate @ R-40 (5.5" closed cell foam) and air/vapor seal both containers for Max. $3000.00.
    <$7000.00 total before refrigeration condenser and grain dust ventilation. Is this this money well spent? **Space is a commodity for our project and the sea containers were already purchased.

    Thx!
    matt g.

  • #2
    I would have to suggest getting in touch with a local refrigeration contractor that can provide some hands-on assistance and advise. You could request a bid for a new/used walk-in cooler in this same size range, and also ask for a quote for just the components required to get this container operational. I would expect there to be a savings to utilize the container. You will need someone local to work with (for either option) to pipe and charge the system too.

    Good luck,

    Jim
    Pro Refrigeration Inc.

    Comment


    • #3
      Used coolers, that is the walls and doors, are usually pretty cheap and easy to find. It's all the refrigeration equipment that is costly. I would think that you could find a used walk-in cooler that size for a lot less than it would cost in labor and materials to insulate the sea container. I found a used walkin about that size at a local used dealer for around $800, and then had my local refrigeration guy install a new refrigeration system.
      Linus Hall
      Yazoo Brewing
      Nashville, TN
      www.yazoobrew.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Jim....I'll look into local refrigeration experts to consult with and compare costs. We live two and half hours from a major city so we are limited on many commercial subcontractors. Though they do travel up into the mtns. here. Im glad to read that you think there may be savings going the sea container route.

        Thanks Linus....the used walls and door route makes sense and I will explore more. The major issue is our space available. We do not have existing space available in the building we own that could house the walk in. We already will be expanding the proposed brewhouse section by 20 x 14 to allow for enough space to house the 7bbl mashtun-boiling kettle-fermentors-lab we are working on purchasing used. This is why the sea container route seemed appropriate. We need grain storage space and cooling space. My partner is a general contractor and a carpenter and welder and has these containers. (doesn't mean we HAVE to use them) My gut feeling is that the cost to build a foundation for these spaces, stick frame, insulate with open cell foam (less expensive than closed cell foam but not "filter"-glass cheap) may cost more than the sea-container route in materials and labor. I'll report back.

        One other question I have is how efficient these panel coolers are. As a spray insulator I am curious what kind of R-value and true moisture and air performance these panelized coolers really offer. I figured 5.5 inches of closed cell foam in the $3000 cost price to insulate both containers. 5.5" offers R-40 (R-value shows conductive performance only, not moisture and air migration performance) What are panelized coolers generally rated at R and air seal? Our electricity is 6 cents per KW hours here in Idaho but it adds up. It is below freezing from basically Halloween to the beginning of April. And it can get into the 90's by August, but usually it is around 70 during the summer.

        We also figured that if we can find a way to expand some day the sea containers could be picked up and moved or sold as is. In 5 to 10 years were considering in our projections tearing down this building and going big(er) from scratch. Point is we are trying to minimize permanent immovable upgrades to existing building as much as possible.

        Thanks for the input!! Lucky me!!
        cheers,
        Matt G.

        Comment


        • #5
          Look for used refrigerated or insulated shipping containers. They can be way cheaper than you are talking. Classifieds/ Craigslist or Ebay. The refrigeration units on them are generally over-sized, horribly inefficient and noisy for your application, unless you are shipping frozen goods across the equator. Refrigerated units where the refrig equipment is shot or on Death Row can be very cheap, and trucking 2-3 hours could prove far cheaper and far less messy than the spray foam nightmare you are considering. Even sheets of urethane or Styrofoam would be easier than spraying.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Moonlight,

            I've noted and appreciate your comments. I will be scouring ebay-craigslist. I'll let you know what I find. ".....horribly in-efficient and noisy" is definitely something we are looking to avoid. I guess that is why I am still leaning towards spraying the containers myself. And purchasing a properly sized new or low use refrigeration system. (the containers are 8x8x20 not 8x14) I co-own my spray foam business. The entire spray foam job will be at cost and completed by me. Spray foam is messy. Proper masking makes messes easy to clean up however. Rookie spray foamers can make ugly...impossible to clean messes. Now that I am no longer a spray foam rookie I want to be a brew rookie so I can be messy again in something else. (weirdo) In my conversations on sprayfoam.com's forum and in some quick reading of technical manuals on container spraying and refrigeration in general, poorly sealed and insufficiently thick insulation can not only be energy ($) wasters in the long run. But condensation problems can be a real problem. Rigid foam is more difficult to install properly than I would have initially assumed. Especially on a ribbed or corrgated surface like in a sea container. And to achieve the R-value and air and vapor seal noted in the price I mentioned I would have to stack and glue and attempt to seal all the seams. However I will be asking the foamers forum for feedback on that concept. Because the materials savings would be significant.

            We are certainly no less constrained by the once all mighty dollar than any other small, essentially crazy start up. I need to crank out some numbers regarding energy use and how that will correlate to savings and in how many years. Maybe the refrig experts can help with this. Energy efficiency is good for the planet and can be good for the pocket book too. This is where I need to weigh the options on upfront cost vs. payback term. Where did I put those chicken bones?

            Comment


            • #7
              So after much consideration it looks like we will be going with a "traditional" panelized cooler setup. We have even found a complete panelized cooler at liquidation rates. (same place we recently purchased a bunch of pub side new and used equipment from 40% to 70% off retail)
              We are expanding the original brewhouse area footprint to allow for an ergonomic home for the system we plan to have shipped in August and also future growth. This extra space allows for a dedicated cooler area that will fit the 8, 7bbl grundie's in the package we found. We also will be able to fit 30+ kegs, hops etc.

              To make the seacontainer work we would need to fir in the entire box...frame in the cooler door, spray closed cell foam w/ additional vapor barrier...(which confuses me because closed cell foam is a true vapor barrier) and build a snow roof around the box. We could do these things relatively easily ourselves but when coupled with the pain in the arss it is to move this thing around in a limited space with salvage lumber piles etc all over the place compelled us to move away from this concept.

              We are already spraying the entire brewhouse exterior with commercial rated depths of open cell spray foam so the panelized box will live in a well insulated easily temp regulated environment making up for any possible inefficiencies of a panelized box.

              Thanks again for the thoughts on this!
              matt g

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              • #8
                Are you still planning on using the other container for grain storage/milling?

                If so, I would advise keeping milling and storage in seperate areas.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by practicalpants
                  Are you still planning on using the other container for grain storage/milling?

                  If so, I would advise keeping milling and storage in seperate areas.
                  It was definitely considered! My partner owns the container and we tried SO hard to put it to use....but even for grain storage complexities arose that denied us. With the space allowed we needed to butt it up to the edge of the building next to the brewhouse on the mashtun side. Snow again became an issue. The existing roof is metal and designed to shed snow.....we were unable to build in the roof cover to allow snow to shed and not hold snow...ie ice damns. So we just added a footing for a grain storage-milling shed that can function with snow....it will be insulated with a window into the brewhouse and a very short auger run of no more than 10 feet.

                  thx for the brainstorm practical pants!

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