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  • Low Fill Levels on Meheen

    Hi everyone,

    We run a 6 fill-head Meheen, Merlin L series, and are having fill height trouble with only one fill head, specifically fill head #1.

    This has been a consistent problem for the past 8 months, and we have seemingly tried every troubleshooting suggestion that has come our way. Fill heads 2-5 give us consistently solid fill levels, cap nicely on foam, and seem to work perfectly. Fill head #1 foams over much more aggressively, and gives us low fill levels throughout the run.

    We run the Meheen hard, 3 days a week, and bottle over 5,000bbls a year on it, which is more than it was designed for, so it gets used beyond its parameters.

    We are at the end of our rope, and considering buying a new fill block, at a price of $873.

    Any ideas? Anyone have similar issues with their 6 fill-head Meheen?

    Thanks for any and all suggestions.

    Seth Hurley
    Packaging Manager
    Maine Beer Company
    Seth Hurley
    Packaging Manager
    Maine Beer Company
    seth@mainebeercompany.com
    860-227-4292

  • #2
    Hey,
    I'm assuming you've changed all of the parts on the fill head? Tubing, plastic connectors and so on. If not that might help. Do you experience any difference when running faster/slower than normal? I havent seen this exact issue before, but I've seen it the other way around, one fill head not foaming as much as the others. Do you see more co2 breakout in the tubing on this fill head than the others?
    Marius Graff,
    Head Brewer, Graff Brygghus
    Tromsø, Norway

    Comment


    • #3
      Can you disable the one fill head that is giving you trouble? Temporary fix until you can track down what the problem is. Sounds like either the beer is too warm in that head, or there is something wrong with the counter pressure filling that is isolated to that head.

      Comment


      • #4
        I've come across this before, couple of questions,
        What is the head pressure and temp on your bright tanks, what is your cycle time and what are your carbonation levels in your beers.
        Kev

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MariusGraff View Post
          Hey,
          I'm assuming you've changed all of the parts on the fill head? Tubing, plastic connectors and so on. If not that might help. Do you experience any difference when running faster/slower than normal? I havent seen this exact issue before, but I've seen it the other way around, one fill head not foaming as much as the others. Do you see more co2 breakout in the tubing on this fill head than the others?
          Thanks for the reply Marius.

          Yes, we change out all of the soft parts on the Meheen regularly.

          As for running faster/slower, our machine doesn't have a speed setting per se. It always runs at pretty much the same speed, 24 bottles per minute. We do control how fast the beer is pushed into the bottles, and with that adjustment we try and control foam over. And we do control it, on fill heads 2-5. It's just fill head #1 that continues to foam over excessively, and leaves us with low fill levels.

          As for CO2 breakout in the actual tubing, I would say all of the fill heads are consistent.

          Thanks again.

          Seth
          Seth Hurley
          Packaging Manager
          Maine Beer Company
          seth@mainebeercompany.com
          860-227-4292

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jebzter View Post
            Can you disable the one fill head that is giving you trouble? Temporary fix until you can track down what the problem is. Sounds like either the beer is too warm in that head, or there is something wrong with the counter pressure filling that is isolated to that head.
            Hi,

            Thanks for your reply.

            I'm not sure we can disable one fill head. I just don't think the Meheen is built to perform that way.

            As for the temperature, it is 45 degrees leaving the BT, and shouldn't change at all before being put into the bottle. Temperatures for each fill head would be the same. There is no way to adjust temperature.

            Counter pressure filling isolated to that head is definitely an area we have been looking into. We've replaced hoses, fill tubes, off gas tubes, cleaned out the fill block, and much more. To no avail.

            Thanks for your help.

            Best,

            Seth
            Seth Hurley
            Packaging Manager
            Maine Beer Company
            seth@mainebeercompany.com
            860-227-4292

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by arrkev View Post
              I've come across this before, couple of questions,
              What is the head pressure and temp on your bright tanks, what is your cycle time and what are your carbonation levels in your beers.
              Kev
              Thanks for the reply Kev.

              The head pressure on the BT is 15psi. And the temperature of the beer is 45 degrees.

              Our cycle time is approximately 6 bottles filled every 15 seconds. 24 per minute.

              The carbonation level in our beers when they are packaged is 2.20.

              Thanks for your help.

              Best,

              Seth
              Seth Hurley
              Packaging Manager
              Maine Beer Company
              seth@mainebeercompany.com
              860-227-4292

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Seth,
                I suggest to start with the simplest trouble shooting before replacing the block: give the Meheen a good cleaning by running PBW, Acid 5, and StarSan through it during the "Clean" cycle. Perhaps fill #1 has beer stone buildup causing CO2 breakout. Also, swap #1 soft line and fill tube to another position and see if the problem remains with position #1 or does it follow the parts. That would tell you if the issue is, in fact, in the block.
                45°F is a little warm, can you get the product colder? It has been my experience the colder the beer, the better the bottling session goes. I strive to bottle when my beers are around 32°F.
                Luck to you.

                Prost!
                Dave
                Glacier Brewing Company
                406-883-2595
                info@glacierbrewing.com

                "who said what now?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GlacierBrewing View Post
                  Hi Seth,
                  I suggest to start with the simplest trouble shooting before replacing the block: give the Meheen a good cleaning by running PBW, Acid 5, and StarSan through it during the "Clean" cycle. Perhaps fill #1 has beer stone buildup causing CO2 breakout. Also, swap #1 soft line and fill tube to another position and see if the problem remains with position #1 or does it follow the parts. That would tell you if the issue is, in fact, in the block.
                  45°F is a little warm, can you get the product colder? It has been my experience the colder the beer, the better the bottling session goes. I strive to bottle when my beers are around 32°F.
                  Luck to you.

                  Prost!
                  Dave
                  Hi Dave,

                  Thanks for your informative reply.

                  We CIP the Meheen after every bottling run, which would be three times per week, with Bru-R-Ez for 3 cycles, and then hot water for 3 cycles. Whenever we break down the fill block and associated parts we have never come across any beer stone. As for swapping out the parts, we have tried that numerous times, and the problem does not follow the parts, it remains true to fill head #1. I admit I am not a big fan of Bru-R-Ez, as it doesn't ever seem to dissolve properly and could perhaps leave behind some constricting residue, but we also do flush out the Meheen 3 times with hot water after the Bru-R-Ez cycle, which should remove any leftover residue, if any, plus we have never seen any visible blockages when dismantling the Meheen to inspect it. Do you recommend another, perhaps liquid chemical, for Meheen CIP's? Could we safely use it 3 times per week?

                  And I agree that 45 degrees is warm, but the catch is that we warm bottle condition our beers for two weeks after packaging, and this packaging temp/conditioning temp/2 week time span is the equation that the brew side has always used to get the finished product we desire. I will indeed bring up the temperature question at our next production meeting though.

                  Thanks again for your help.

                  Best,

                  Seth
                  Seth Hurley
                  Packaging Manager
                  Maine Beer Company
                  seth@mainebeercompany.com
                  860-227-4292

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SethHurley View Post
                    Hi Dave,

                    Thanks for your informative reply.

                    We CIP the Meheen after every bottling run, which would be three times per week, with Bru-R-Ez for 3 cycles, and then hot water for 3 cycles. Whenever we break down the fill block and associated parts we have never come across any beer stone. As for swapping out the parts, we have tried that numerous times, and the problem does not follow the parts, it remains true to fill head #1. I admit I am not a big fan of Bru-R-Ez, as it doesn't ever seem to dissolve properly and could perhaps leave behind some constricting residue, but we also do flush out the Meheen 3 times with hot water after the Bru-R-Ez cycle, which should remove any leftover residue, if any, plus we have never seen any visible blockages when dismantling the Meheen to inspect it. Do you recommend another, perhaps liquid chemical, for Meheen CIP's? Could we safely use it 3 times per week?

                    And I agree that 45 degrees is warm, but the catch is that we warm bottle condition our beers for two weeks after packaging, and this packaging temp/conditioning temp/2 week time span is the equation that the brew side has always used to get the finished product we desire. I will indeed bring up the temperature question at our next production meeting though.

                    Thanks again for your help.

                    Best,

                    Seth

                    So the beer going into bottles is not yet carbonated? Partially carbonated? or do you carbonate but warm condition for other reasons?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      +1 to Dave's recommendation of changing fill tubes around to see if the problem follows. Also for the short time that we ran our Meheen I did notice some inconsistency much like you're describing. One thing to try as well is changing the height of the fill tube. I originally tried to make sure that all the fill tubes were the same distance from the bottom of the the bottles. It seemed as though there were always differences in fill height and foam as you went down the line further from the inlet of the manifold. Maybe try small adjustments in the height of that fill tube, making it either closer to the bottom or further. I know that Meheen suggests a particular gap in the manual but as I'm sure you know much of what was stated in their manual did not reflect reality.

                      In the end we never got perfect consistency but a real good middle of the road as far as fill levels and capping on foam.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SethHurley View Post
                        Thanks for the reply Marius.


                        As for running faster/slower, our machine doesn't have a speed setting per se. It always runs at pretty much the same speed,
                        Thanks again.

                        Seth
                        Hey Seth, I'm still thinking about this one. A lot! and will pass on my thoughts pretty soon but, although I'm not familiar with an L series I am pretty sure the speed control has been standard for a while. The black knob that controls the release of counter pressure from the bottles thus regulating the speed of flow should be on that machine. Does it not have one?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by briangaylor View Post
                          So the beer going into bottles is not yet carbonated? Partially carbonated? or do you carbonate but warm condition for other reasons?
                          Hi,

                          Thanks for the reply.

                          The beer going into the bottles is partially carbonated at 2.20.

                          We then warm condition for 2 weeks at 68 degrees, and the end result is a carb of 2.80.

                          Seth
                          Seth Hurley
                          Packaging Manager
                          Maine Beer Company
                          seth@mainebeercompany.com
                          860-227-4292

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by soia1138 View Post
                            +1 to Dave's recommendation of changing fill tubes around to see if the problem follows. Also for the short time that we ran our Meheen I did notice some inconsistency much like you're describing. One thing to try as well is changing the height of the fill tube. I originally tried to make sure that all the fill tubes were the same distance from the bottom of the the bottles. It seemed as though there were always differences in fill height and foam as you went down the line further from the inlet of the manifold. Maybe try small adjustments in the height of that fill tube, making it either closer to the bottom or further. I know that Meheen suggests a particular gap in the manual but as I'm sure you know much of what was stated in their manual did not reflect reality.

                            In the end we never got perfect consistency but a real good middle of the road as far as fill levels and capping on foam.
                            Thanks for the reply.

                            That is a great point, (about the manual not reflecting reality) and a great idea about altering the height of the compromised fill head.

                            I think we will certainly be giving that a try.

                            Seth
                            Seth Hurley
                            Packaging Manager
                            Maine Beer Company
                            seth@mainebeercompany.com
                            860-227-4292

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by arrkev View Post
                              Hey Seth, I'm still thinking about this one. A lot! and will pass on my thoughts pretty soon but, although I'm not familiar with an L series I am pretty sure the speed control has been standard for a while. The black knob that controls the release of counter pressure from the bottles thus regulating the speed of flow should be on that machine. Does it not have one?
                              Thanks again for all of your help.

                              Yes, we do have a black control knob that regulates the speed of flow, but it regulates flow over all 6 fill heads at the same time, not each one specifically. Unfortunately.

                              So fill head #1 is the problem, always gushing over.

                              If we lower the speed to accommodate for #1, it adversely effects the remaining fill heads, and they do not get nearly enough beer.

                              Thanks. Still open to any and all ideas that you might have.

                              Seth
                              Seth Hurley
                              Packaging Manager
                              Maine Beer Company
                              seth@mainebeercompany.com
                              860-227-4292

                              Comment

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