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Thread: Carbonation Stone Assembly

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
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    50

    Carbonation Stone Assembly

    I'm in need of a Carbonation Stone assembly. G.W. has them for $275. Anyone have one they want to part with, or know where to find one at a better price??

    thanks,

    Nick

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
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    1,518
    Try Rob at Premier Stainless. 1.760.752.7032 / rob@premierstainless.com He'll take care of you.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Palau
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    1,518
    OK, now I need carbonation stone assemblies and Rob doesn't sell them any longer. So, anyone care to point me to a reasonable dealer for a set of 10 x 6" stone assemblies? Thanks!
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--
    Worldwide Brewery Installations
    www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Marquette, Michigan
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    71

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Santa Rosa CA USA
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    963
    I would like to recommend installing it such that it can be CIP'd through the stone.

  6. #6
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    Palau
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    Moonlight, I've never been a fan of CIP through the stone. Not unless your CIP is immaculately clean. And here I mean sterile filtered and probably not worth the effort. Otherwise, you're basically using your stone as a 0.5 or 1.0 or 5.0 micron filter and intentionally clogging it up. I prefer to keep the stone from ever getting any solids (or even liquids) in it in use. So installing a check valve immediately at the stone to mitigate even beer from flooding the stone helps. To clean, I soak it overnight in something like PBW & blow with air in a bucket of water until the stone looks like it's misting the gas properly. Then an acid soak followed by a sanitizer soak. These stones can be incubation sites for bacteria. Can't be too careful.
    And yes! Looks like GW Kent has something that might work for 20 bbl tanks there. 7/8" x 5" should do it, even if it does take a night to carbonate. Especially for $89! Thought I had checked that out, but only saw the $275 unit. I need 10 of these so price adds quickly. Thanks Brewman21!
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--
    Worldwide Brewery Installations
    www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by gitchegumee
    Moonlight, I've never been a fan of CIP through the stone.
    Not a fan either. I use the same basic regimen except I back flush with hot liquor for 20 minutes after the acid soak.
    Shouldn't you be brewing beer?
    HK

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Santa Rosa CA USA
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    963
    How do you guarantee that you have killed everything between the stone and the check valve? I used to believe a check valve was enough to not worry, but have since found that wort in the pores of the stone does not get fully flushed out, nor cleaned. It eventually gets baked in and can cause fouling of the stone. Merely soaking never could clean the maze of passages like running hot caustic through it under pressure, at least for me.

    I have been running CIP backwards through the stone, and find this keeps the pores clean, won't plug the pores because any particulates will get blown back out from the oxygen, and solves the need to remove it for hand cleaning and the risk of re-contamination as it is replaced after cleaning.
    I totally agree that this is a critical incubation reservoir for infection, hence the need to be diligent. Absolutely can't be too careful!

    If your CIP solution/procedure is not sterile enough to clean the stone, then you are likely due for additional problems. I do use solution that hasn't seen really heavy soils previously so has no chunks.
    But there are plenty of ways to skin the proverbial cat...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL, US
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    180
    one could always periodically pressure cook the stones as well for extra insurance.
    Beejay
    Pipeworks Brewing Company

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
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    Many ways to skin the cat, indeed. Add additional challenges when the beer you carbonate is a cloudy wheat beer instead of a sterile filtered light pilsner! I'm not saying that any one way is the right way. I think that if you're thinking and acting with due diligence, then that is most of the battle. Using different techniques and following up with performance-based testing for your unique process is always a sure way to find the best way for you. This forum offers us many different perspectives to find out what may work and what likely won't work. Take what others offer, digest it in the context of your own situation, and modify your process to test the hypothesis. The following from carbonation experts Zahm & Nagel's website supports the view that there is no one perfect solution for all applications. Note that nearly all of our collective suggestions are listed here. Also note that this set of instructions is specifically for their SS models--Ceramic cleaning is covered separately.

    "CLEANING INFORMATION 316 L POROUS MATERIAL"

    DO NOT mechanically clean porous metal elements. Wire brushing, scraping, sand or glass bead blasting can smear the pores and close off the porous media.

    Chemical cleaning follows a logical sequence. First determine what contaminants present in the filter. Next determinee the chemical agents that will dissolve these contaminants (without dissolving or attacking the porous metal). The chemical agents compatible with 316L stainless steel porous media could be, but are not limited to:

    Water at any temperature 15% nitric acid up to 150 Deg F.

    20% caustic up to 212 Deg F. Alcohol

    Acetic acid Acetone

    Ammonia Organic solvents

    Methlyene chloride Detergents

    Solvents

    Industrial cleaners such as Oakite 31 or Sonicor #103 (to remove all grease or oil)

    Soak the elements in the chemical agent as required, flush with clean filtered water or other compatible fluid, blow out with clean air or steam. Two chemical agents may be required, such as 15% nitric acid to remove iron oxide and 20% caustic to remove aluminum particulate, with a water flush between soaks.

    To remove inert or insoluble solids from porous metal elements ultra-sonic cleaning is an effective process. The fluid medium usually contains a detergent for maximum efficiency of removal. It is recommended that ultra-sonic transducers provide at least 60 watts per gallon of fluid in the ultra-sonic bath. Cleaning may require from 10 to 60 minutes. Optimum results are obtained when cleaning solution is flowed through the element in reverse direction during ultra-sonic cleaning.

    For elements used for gas solids service it is necessary to bake the elements in an oven at 300 Deg F. to 400 Deg F. after cleaning to assure that all moisture is removed from the element.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--
    Worldwide Brewery Installations
    www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com

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