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Thread: Pall Seitz HS-2000 Filter Sheets

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Amherst, NH, US
    Posts
    14

    Pall Seitz HS-2000 Filter Sheets

    A year ago we experienced a significant change in our filtration day using the Pall HS-2000 40x40 filter sheets. We went from filtering 30bbl's in 3 to 4 hours up to an 8-hour day or longer depending on how many times we had to back-flush and resanitize. Once we recognized there was a problem and spent enough time trying to determine the source by ruling-out possible yeast problems to having stand-pipes manufactured for our fermenters to anything else we could think of. We spent almost a solid month on the phone with Pall trying to figure out why we may be having difficulty while at the same time the problems started, we also noticed that the outer packaging had also been changed from the previous shipment. Pall emphatically declared that it was our problem an not something with the filter media.

    To make a long story short, I spoke to Bob Tyler at Pall yesterday in an attempt to check current pricing (I like to verify my current supplier's pricing every once in awhile) and relayed my concern due to the fact that we were still having the same problems and had just used up the last of the same batch of filter sheets that started us off on this journey. Bob acknowledged that they had determined at some point last year that in fact there was a problem where a production run of HS-200 pads were mistakenly packaged as HS-2000. The 200's apparently blind much faster.

    We are moving forward with our next purchase of HS-2000's as we have been promised that the problem has been resolved. I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has in the past year, experienced similar problems with HS-2000's. We have our fingers crossed that filtration days will return to normal.

    Cheers,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh, NY USA
    Posts
    220

    filter sheets

    I use use the hs2000 sheets from pall and haven't had any issues. It looks like I'm lucky though, as it seems many brewers have run into this problem. As for my filter day, I filter about 6.5 bbl in 28 min (of actual filter time). I usually get the chance to condition my beer for at least two weeks prior to filtering and I slowly dump the yeast off of the bottom of my conicals every couple of days, so my yeast/protein load is quite diminished. By the end of almost all of my runs I still haven't picked up more than a 0.2-0.3 difference in bar. So i guess as long as the pall sheets are labeled properly the hs2000 should work efficiently. Hopefully this info will keep you hopeful that reasonable filter days are ahead. By the way...I noticed you're located in Milford, NH. I grew up there in the 1990's, it's good to here that some one opened up a brewery there. And I love the fact your marketing is so iconic to Milford. Nothing like hearing the volunteer fire siren all over town. Anyways, good luck.
    Ziveli!
    Jay Stoyanoff
    Brewmaster
    Plattsburgh Brewing Co.
    Plattsburgh, NY

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Stavanger Norway
    Posts
    318
    Just a note, sometimes the brewing water changes can cause poor flocculation. I use RO water and when we forget to add CaCl we notice a huge difference, resulting in a filter that looks like we ran peanut butter through it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Amherst, NH, US
    Posts
    14
    Hi Jay,

    Thanks for your reply re: HS2000 filter pads and howdy from Milford. Things have changed here quite a bit, I'm sure you wouldn't even recognize it anymore.

    Just wanted to ask how many sheets you are using to filter 6.5bbl's? We use 30 sheets for 30bbl's and am trying to get a better idea of some of the differences before I start to look "again" at whether or not this is our issue or Pall's. On top of the fact that we have standpipe's in our fermenters, we also drop most of the yeast/trub load over at least the previous 3 days prior to filtration day. Granted, we have 45 degree cones rather than 60 degree. This is why we had standpipes made so that we avoid instantly blinding the filter pads if there are any collapses of the yeast from cone wall.

    Also, we start filtration from the racking port (with racking arm removed since we use a standpipe) and we still experience filter blinding sometimes as soon as 10bbl's into filtration. We also purchased new yeast thinking it was a yeast generation or stress issue to no avail.

    We have our fingers crossed that our problem really is/was a Pall issue and not something related to our protocols or other technical issues. I will update this thread as soon as we've filtered using the new batch of sheets coming in.

    Michael,

    Thanks for your input, I will run your comments past our brewer to see what he thinks.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by philjewett; 02-13-2008 at 10:30 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4
    Hey Guys,
    A good rule of thumb when sizing filter sheets is to use:200-300 LHM.

    When filtering 30 bbls (3520 liters) of beer in 4 hours using 40 x 40 sheets. 8.8 meters of surface area is needed.

    Therefore 55 40 x 40 sheets would be needed.

    If your press is already full slow things down.

    Cheers,
    Bob Tyler

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh, NY USA
    Posts
    220

    how many sheets

    Hello Phil
    In answer to your question we use (19) 40 x 40 sheets to filter 6.5 bbl or 13 bbl when we can filter two in a row. Either way it flows at a constant rate the whole time and usually doesn't pick up more than 0.4 bar differential over two batches. In the brewhouse I do a single step infusion mash and we use chico yeast. I have a hard time understanding why the amount of barrels to filter would change the rate at which the filter blinds. The way I figure, I could probably get close to 25 bbl filtered through my 19 sheets without picking up more than 1.0 bar differential. And that shouldn't even be enough to slow you down. If you have 30 sheets I would figure you could easily do 30 bbl in about 2.5 hours. Does your grain have a lot a beta-glucans? Just curious...when you drop the yeast from the bottom of the tank prior to filtration do you do it with a very small ID hose? I learned at redhook that pulling the the yeast painfully slowly off of the beer made filtering much easier as not much yeast stays in the cone. That's what I've been doing here at the brewpub and it's been working great. Hope any of that was helpful.
    Cheers
    Jay Stoyanoff
    Brewmaster
    Plattsburgh Brewing Co.
    Plattsburgh, NY

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Amherst, NH, US
    Posts
    14
    Just an update...we finally filtered using the new batch of HS-2000 pads and completed a 30bbl filtration in 3.5 hours. While I'm overjoyed with the thought that our filtration problems seem to now be over, I'm more than a little irritated that we suffered miserably through the entire shipment of faulty pads. Turns out we had been pointing our fingers at the correct culprit all along. It would have been nice to have a phone call from Pall Corp. when they first discovered there was a problem rather than waiting for us to pose the question in this forum. We spent hours on the phone with sales support back when we first started having the problem. You'd think someone would have kept a record of our dilemma, then have the decency to call to let us know they *u*ked up.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by philjewett; 03-06-2008 at 08:01 AM.

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