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Thread: fining dilemma

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20

    fining dilemma

    So, for the longest time now, I've been serving my beers unfined, and unfiltered. Well, I recently had a humbling turn of events when I tasted MY RECIPE (and procedure), done at another brewery that was fined with isinglass. It was much "cleaner" than mine. So, I decided I needed to do this, then remembered why I don't: No b.t. in house, no force carbonation (bosses rule).

    Can somebody tell me how I can fine my beers, based on my limited resources and current procedure.

    1) ferment the beer (@65F)
    2) rack the yeast
    3) shut-in the beer (@1.5 bars above t.g.)
    4) crash the beer (@33F) w/ positive pressure applied (yes, I know...it's force carbonation. don't get side-tracked by my boss' philosophy on brewing here, let's stick to the problem at hand)
    5) (wait 2-3 weeks) transfer to serving tank

    So, I tried to fine my beer anyway. I used 1 oz. (by weight) of isinglass. Instead of crashing the beer to 33, I took it to 38 (I read a post saying this temp. is ideal for fining) Took beer from the cock, put it all in a blender for 2 minutes, let it sit for 30. Slowly, I vented the gas from the FV, opened the man-way, and poured it in. I did this for 2 different beers. The first, I just shut the man-way, and gassed it up again, waited 72 hours, and crashed to 33. The other I mixed with CO2 through the trub port, then did as I described above. Needless to say, When I pulled samples (dumping the first 2-3 oz., rinsing the glass, and pouring again) the beer did not appear any clearer then it normally does. It does, however, taste a little cleaner then usual (maybe I'm just telling myslef that to justify the extra work I put into these batched?), but not as clean as I would like.

    Advice, anyone?

    Dick

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    11
    Hi Dick,
    Unless I missed it, I didn't see how big your batch volume was. Could be just underdosed? In any case, from the Handbook of Brewing, 2nd ed, I got a dosing rate of isinglass of 1-2.5 g/hl. A good method for finding out how much isinglass you need is to get say, 4-5 samples of the beer. Leave the first undosed, then dose the rest with increasing amouts of fining, wait a couple of days and see which ones are most clear. Overdosing can cause a weird fluff to form at the bottom of the tank (and waste money).
    Actual clearing times will depend on the depth and shape of your fermenter/CT, beer pH, Ca++ content and how hoppy the beer is, but apparently 3 days is a good result for 3000 hl of beer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20
    Sorry,
    1 oz. in 7 Bbl of beer.
    How about mixing after dosing? Is my temp. correct?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by dickshindles
    So, for the longest time now, I've been serving my beers unfined, and unfiltered. Well, I recently had a humbling turn of events when I tasted MY RECIPE (and procedure), done at another brewery that was fined with isinglass. It was much "cleaner" than mine. So, I decided I needed to do this, then remembered why I don't: No b.t. in house, no force carbonation (bosses rule).

    Can somebody tell me how I can fine my beers, based on my limited resources and current procedure.

    1) ferment the beer (@65F)
    2) rack the yeast
    3) shut-in the beer (@1.5 bars above t.g.)
    4) crash the beer (@33F) w/ positive pressure applied (yes, I know...it's force carbonation. don't get side-tracked by my boss' philosophy on brewing here, let's stick to the problem at hand)
    5) (wait 2-3 weeks) transfer to serving tank

    So, I tried to fine my beer anyway. I used 1 oz. (by weight) of isinglass. Instead of crashing the beer to 33, I took it to 38 (I read a post saying this temp. is ideal for fining) Took beer from the cock, put it all in a blender for 2 minutes, let it sit for 30. Slowly, I vented the gas from the FV, opened the man-way, and poured it in. I did this for 2 different beers. The first, I just shut the man-way, and gassed it up again, waited 72 hours, and crashed to 33. The other I mixed with CO2 through the trub port, then did as I described above. Needless to say, When I pulled samples (dumping the first 2-3 oz., rinsing the glass, and pouring again) the beer did not appear any clearer then it normally does. It does, however, taste a little cleaner then usual (maybe I'm just telling myslef that to justify the extra work I put into these batched?), but not as clean as I would like.

    Advice, anyone?

    Dick

    Let's take a look at your procedure, with some slight changes you shouldn't need fining:

    I don't know what yeast strain you're using so I assume M-H flocculation

    >1) ferment the beer (@65F)
    Okay
    >2) rack the yeast
    >3) shut-in the beer (@1.5 bars above t.g.)
    >4) crash the beer (@33F) w/ positive pressure applied >5) (wait 2-3 weeks) transfer to serving tank

    Switch the order in your process to 1., 3., 4., then 2. i.e. bung/spund (Is that what you mean by shut-in?) 1 -1.5 degree P. above TG. Crash cool when TG is reached. When cold, harvest yeast for repitching or disposal. Pull yeast daily for 2 - 3 days.
    >5) (wait 2-3 weeks) transfer to serving tank
    Drain yeast twice just prior to final transfer. There won't be much at this point.

    If you truly have 2 - 3 weeks prior to transferring to your serving tank the procedure described above will give clear to bright results, again given a yeast strain with M - H floc. No opening manways on "finished" beer, no mixing (which can both be sources of contamination), no de-gas/re-gassing, and with practice a cleaner, better end product.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by beertje46; 03-02-2008 at 06:13 AM.
    Cheers & I'm out!
    David R. Pierce
    NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
    POB 343
    New Albany, IN 47151

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    208

    Question Finings

    I'm very intrigued with this "No Fining" regimen as I'm not fond of Gelatine or Isinglass. I've met Brewers in Austria and Germany who do something similar but they racked the beer to a cellartank after fermentation crash cooled it to 1deg c for 1-2 weeks...again no finings.....

    Guys what i can't figure out is how can you get away with tying up a fermenter for 3 weeks plus ? How can you do this procedure in a busy brewery ?


    Thanks

    Tariq

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by tariq khan
    I'm very intrigued with this "No Fining" regimen as I'm not fond of Gelatine or Isinglass. I've met Brewers in Austria and Germany who do something similar but they racked the beer to a cellartank after fermentation crash cooled it to 1deg c for 1-2 weeks...again no finings.....

    Guys what i can't figure out is how can you get away with tying up a fermenter for 3 weeks plus ? How can you do this procedure in a busy brewery ?


    Thanks

    Tariq
    It's not practicle in a production brewery unless you have a serious tank farm. I filter all of our beers now. Racking to a celler tank does work well but requires the same amount of time to naturally clear. I have been able to get clear beer in two weeks using the program I outlined above. Samples pulled from the Uni prior to rack would show a light haze. One day after racking to the serving tank the beer would be very clear - bright. I use WLP001 as our yeast.
    Cheers & I'm out!
    David R. Pierce
    NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
    POB 343
    New Albany, IN 47151

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,567
    Why wouldn't you add finings to the serving tank before you pressurize and fill it?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by gitchegumee
    Why wouldn't you add finings to the serving tank before you pressurize and fill it?
    You absolutely could. Also possible to dose inline during transfer/racking from a keg.
    Cheers & I'm out!
    David R. Pierce
    NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
    POB 343
    New Albany, IN 47151

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    St.Louis->Tacoma
    Posts
    633
    I mix up my Klarospan (gelatin finings) in a pitcher and pour it right in the transfer hose between the FV and BBT. I like knowing that it is thoroughly mixed in with the beer. Ready to serve in 24 hours, or less if i run off the side port of the BBT. I guess that's really no different that putting it in the BBT tank as gitchegumee suggested, just how i skin the cat.

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