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Thread: Rinsing new bottles

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sweden
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    134

    Rinsing new bottles

    Diversey Lever recommend me to rinse new bottles, (prior to filling), with 0,02 % solution of Divosan Plus, containing 5 % Peroxyacetic Acid. We have a very good water with no biological conatamination. Is this common to do? I have read about the risk for off flavours from sanitazing agents.

    /Bjorn Falkestrom

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, Ontario Canada
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    192

    Re: Rinsing New Bottles

    Bjorn, The glass making process and transportation variables make rinsing of new containers an absolute must in my opinion.

    I have used both Divosan products and 10 ppm chlorine on twist rinsers in the past with success but this is dependent on the dependability of your delivery system. We tested hourly on a 300 bpm line and did occassionally have pump/injection problems (sometimes too much, sometimes no sanitizer). We did this because we used well water as process water in the plant and this never provides micro stability (I don't care how pure the source is reputed to be).

    We did have a problem with product contamination with Divosan MH as a tank rinse-and-go product but it was only with light lagers and was used in higher concentrations. I guess the bottom line is your confidence level with your water supply because any automated rinser will provide water carryover to the filler. And what about mold build up on your delivery system? How often can you CIP it and test it?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    India
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    138
    We used The same set up and even new bottles, used Peroxyacetic acid solution. Never had any problems with off flavours. Concentration should be low enough to avoid any problems.
    Always a little nervious when using plain water as a final rinse, bottling or brewing. We have done it and had success, but always waiting for the day it doesn't work.

    Matt

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,602

    Rinsing

    We modified the last three jets in a twist rinser to spray the bottles with dilute oxine (chlorine dioxide) solution. Also used a mister similar to what's used in machine tool cooling to mist the crowns as well. All part of a massive clamp down on improving our counts in the brewery. The whole program was extensive, but it really worked. Good luck.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    134

    Question Rinsing solution ...

    The local health authorities don´t want any thing else than clean water in the rinse befor filling. So I called back to my sales repr. on Diversey Lever and told him the health inspectors opinon. After that he changed his mind and agreed with health inspector. So now I don´t know what to do. Is there anyone who can give me a adress to a chemical company which can verify the use of chlorine or Peroxyacetic acid dilute solution in the final rinse water?

    /Bjorn Falkeström

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    192
    Bjorn,
    What is your confidence level in your water? You indicate it is "very good". Is it or isn't it? Do you have lab facilities to plate it? If so, plate it regularly. Solid info breeds decisions. I have heard that the flavour threshold for chlorine is around 25ppm. We tried to maintain a 10ppm rinse but had a variance of +/- 3ppm on any given test. Depending on your delivery system, some sanitizers are oxygen sensitive and time dependent, so be careful to get the right mix and dump the rest.
    If your confidence level in your water can be built up then I would look at the cleaning/CIP of your rinsing system and stress to your employees 'cleanliness'. Don't look to a supplier to run your operation!
    Chemical suppliers have always provided me with valuable information and chemicals at a negotiated rate but they are sales people!! They are always being pushed to sell the latest and greatest. Look for other packaging professionals or brewers to provide the specs you are looking for (Yes, I know that is why you asked).
    Good luck with project and remember that your tongue will tell when things are right or wrong. Keep tasting. Cheers. -Rob-

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
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    1,073
    We have detected flavour changes when rinse water containing PAA comes into contact with beer. There can be some fairly awful flavour changes when chlorine comes into contact with beer. Hmm. Don't use chemicals. However if your chlorine residues are extremely low, (unfortunately I have forgotton the level at present, but have it at work) then it is acceptable to the major US breweries. You could alway try UV sterilisation if your water is that bad - but you still need to be able to chemically clean and sterilise through the UV filter and associated rinse systems, as previously stated.

    Personally I would go for chlorine dioxide if forced to use anything - this seems to cause people less grief that PAA

    GIve me a shout if you want the residual chlorine level required. Incidently, they seem more concerned by residual trichlorohalides than chlorine, in other words if your local water contains much organis material and is treated with chlorine in the municipal water treatment works this may be abigger problem than bugs

    Cheers
    dick

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, Ontario Canada
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    I just read my post and felt I should add that our use of chlorine was at what I considered extreme levels but it illustrates what you can get away with. The plant manager was an oldtime microbiologist and relied on products he was comfortable with. I'm sure the rinse would show up on our competitors G.C.'s under analysis but our test panels never picked it up.
    I concur with Dick's recommendation on chlorine dioxide over PAA.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    134

    Rinsing again

    Thanks for all advices on this subject.
    All water tests shows that the water is microbiologically clean

    My intension was to insure me against risks for infection caused by the glass manufacturing, transport and depalletising of bottles.

    My conclusion is that it is not one easy answer. So I will do like this

    Rinse with well water,

    Make lab tests to check out that the rinsed bottle is microbiologically clean. If not I will try a dilute soultion of cholrine dioxide.

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