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Thread: Non-chlorinated caustics: hot side

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Petaluma, CA, USA
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    11

    Non-chlorinated caustics: hot side

    We have recently given the ax to chlorinated caustics, this after too long (years) of using them. We now use Lerapur-238 with (or without) an H2O2 activator. We get fantastic results on our fermenters but not on the mash tun (previously thoroughly hand cleaned) and especially the kettle.

    We run it hot (175-180F) and for 30 to 45 min. at the recommended concentration and get most of the proteins off our steam jackets but it just ain't as pretty as with chlorinated caustics (films, white deposits on the jackets, etc.). We want to save our stainless and will not switch back so any info anybody has would be much appreciated

    PS: acid (de-scaler, phospo-nitro mix) does help when we do a follow up; but it's not convenient towards CIP recovery and still doesn't compare to chlorinated castic's performance alone.

    Thanks to Everybody,
    BrewDoctor

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    995
    I use Birko products on my brewhouse, unitanks, kegs, etc.; Acid Bright # 2 followed with Bru-R-Ez (noncaustic cleaner) with great results. I've used Birko exclusively for six years and am very happy with their product line, cost effective as well!

    http://www.birkocorp.com/product.asp

    Follow their instructions and you will be happy with the results.

    Dana Johnson is the contact.

    David R. Pierce
    BBC Brewing Co., LLC
    Louisville, KY

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Petaluma, CA, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks for the input.

    I think we tried Bru-R-Eez (a powder, I believe) and got some results but did not use any acid. Nonetheless, you're right in that some sort of acid is necessary, though we would generally use it after the caustic due to some pretty substantial proteinacious loads.
    For now I plan to keep on experimenting and will update the post when we have a winner.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    India
    Posts
    137
    Always had good results with nitric acid(careful), either paste or CIP, with minimal scrubbing. (showcase finish) This is after a good hot caustic CIP. Might want to play with the consentration. Plus the added benifit of passifying the Stainless.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    387
    Use the Acid first and then the alkaline for the brewhouuse. The Acid seems to soften up everything and the alkaline will wash it off till its spotless. I use Acid # 5 followed by PBW (5 Star)and always get a spotless kettle. I have used PBW and then Acid but it ends up like you say with a film and deposits still left behind.
    Big Willey
    "You are what you is." FZ

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    8
    We want to save our stainless and will not switch back so any info anybody has would be much appreciated
    But chlorinated alkaline solutions used in the proper temperature range and concentrations do not damage stainless. The Chlorine is to tightly bonded to the alkaline source to become free.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
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    1,038
    Keep the pH greater than 11, temperature less than 60 deg C and the chlorine concentration less than 200 ppm, you probably will be OK, but..... The pH is the most critical parameter.

    Cheers
    dick

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    10
    Yes..
    In the brewhouse more often than not you must start with your acid wash, rinse down well, then your caustic/pbw wash.
    The rinse water you use in the brewhouse during brew days leaves behind an inorganic mineral coating that protects the organic matter from the alkaline cleaner.
    The acid wash will break this film down.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,038
    Interesting. I have never heard of that experience before. Something else to tuck away in the back of the brain.

    Cheers
    dick

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Petaluma, CA, USA
    Posts
    11

    the eagle has landed

    Props to all those who suggested acid before caustic. A cold acid wash followed by hot caustic does the trick. I agree with the theory that mineral deposits from our rinse water (hard) form a barrier, since the jackets are always hot when we hit 'em.

    One other observation is that alkaline-acid-alkaline works well on super fouled jackets and makes them look extra spiffy.
    Thanks!

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