Filter Frustrations

[NYSBrewer]

I am in 7bbl brewpub and recently have started filtering my beers on a 2sq Della. In the past, I have only filtered one beer, a Kolsch and have not had any problems. The kolsch does get a long, cold condition, sometimes up to three weeks. I have 5 fermenters, 3 7bbls, and 2 14bbls. I like to keep 8-10 house beers on at all times, so as you can imagine, I really dont have time to cold condition the other beers for very long. The problem I am having I cant get more than a couple barrels through the filter before it slows to a trickle and stops filtering. The plunger on the out sight glas drops from 50hl/hour to 30/hr in a matter of minutes and then beer moves to a trickle. I am using FW-50 for a body feed, and FW-12 for dosing. My initial thoughts are there is just simply too much yeast in the beer I am trying to get through. Are there any other ideas as to why I am having this issue? Any solutions? I am ready to bang this thing into the ground.........

[Graydon]

Find a local brewer that has run DE filters and ask them to come and run a batch with you. DE filters can be a real pain. There are many tricks and you can probably get some help for a lunch and a few beers.

Graydon

[BrewinLou]

How long are recircing for your precoat? Have you tried starting very slow with your dose turned up all the way? How long does it take to run a normal batch of Kolsch? Off the top of my head that sounds like you are running it really fast. What are your starting pressures, do you have a hose hooked up to equalize the two tanks?

[jrbeck]

I think the tip the other poster gave you about getting a mentor is the best. Always better to have someone there to work with.

Beyond that, here are some things to try:
1. Do you have the equipment to do cell counts? Do one prior to filtration on all your batches. This will give you some insight into what you lies ahead of you during filtration. Obviously, less cells equals less pressure rise (or drop in flowrate) during filtration. Then you can make informed decisions about longer crashing times, fining, etc.
2. Put more DE in your filter. Either use a thicker slurry or higher dose rate, or both.
3. Slow down your output. When I run my DE filter I split the filtered output between the hose to the BBT and recirculation back into the filter. Then I can fine tune the ratio as necessary to achieve proper clarity and pressure rise. This is connected to how much DE you dose in as you filter.

These are really your variables: how much 'stuff' you need to filter out of the beer, how much DE your add to your filter, and how fast you filter. Play with those variables (start conservative and then get aggressive) and you will find the 'sweet spot.'

Cheers,
Jason

[NYSBrewer]

I am recircing my precoat for about 20 min, the precoat stage seems to go fine, all the DE in the dosing tank goes into the bell, and I wait till i have a clear sight glass, and a clear dosing tank. I have tried starting off slow, same result. I am filtering carbonated beers, so yes the tanks are equalized. I takes just over an hour to filter a batch of the kolsh, when things are running properly.

[NYSBrewer]

As for asking for help, the only other brewer in town who uses DE is my former employer, which is who taught me how to filter anyway. I ran his filter for 6 years, filtering 60-120bbls a week. I have tried everything I know of, which is why Im reaching out to probrewer.....

[oppigards]

we had a low floc yeast in the past, with our 2sq filter we could filter about 35 hl, with our high floc yeast we normally filter 75 hl, so if there is a problem with filtration 14 hl there is truly something wrong. the only beer that we are not able to filtrate is our porter, but it does not matter. If there is a problem to filtrate more than a few bbl, it sounds that your dosing pump is not working. No matter how much yeast that is in suspension, you should be able to filter at least 14 hl with a high dosing rate with a 2sq filter. Maybe you have a too fine kiselguhr.

[NYSBrewer]

Im sure the pump is working, as I can see it dosing once I start it. The DE I am using is FW-50 for the body feed, which my supplier said is 8-10 micron. The FW 12 is .8-1 micron. Is that too fine? Since I am on a pub situation, I am just looking to remove yeast.

[dick murton]

It sounds as though you are simply not adding enough powder for the loading of yeast and protein. Undoubtedly the long cold storage time on for instance the Kolsch allows far more to settle out. If your dosing pump and injection system will cope, simply add 50 % more powder to the mix and see if that makes any difference

What do the different beers look like up against a bright light or better still a set of black & white stripes. The fuzzier the edges, the more powder you will need to add. I'm afraid it is a case of trial and error, so the sugestion of 50 % extra is simply an indication that a fairly drastic change might be necessary. You can always add more, or add less in the future to improve run length or reduce powder costs. If you have pressure gauges on the inlet and outlet, aim for about a 2 - 3 psi increase in diff per hour. More than that tends to blind the filter far too rapidly

Good luck

[NYSBrewer]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Looks like what I will try next will be more DE, and a slower start with a higher dose. PLease, if there are more suggestions out there, keep the thread going.

[pbutlert]

Pre-coating with the 8-10 micron DE sounds good, but in a pub situation, no packaging, I would be using a body feed/dosing grade much looser than .8-1.0 microns. Try a bag rated at 3-5 and see what that does for your speed and be sure to monitor clarity for a few weeks.

[liammckenna]

I agree that 0.8-1.0 micron is way too tight. Remember that your filter also has an element of of depth filtration.

Try a 30/70 mix for your body feed and see what happens. Dose as high as possible until your problem comes under control. Do you have a racking valve on your tank? A yeast 'slug' early on will blind your filter pretty instantly.

Pax.

Liam

[NYSBrewer]

I have a racking, port, but no racking arm. I always blow out the valve a few times before I begin to get rid of those nasty "slugs". When you say try 30/70 in my body feed, what do you mean? I have ordered another bag of DE that is 3-5 micron, and was gonna try that. I was talking with another brewer in my region last night, and he sugested trying the 8-10 for precoat and body feed.

[liammckenna]

Do you have ability to do yeast counts on filtered beer?

Precoat should definitely be entirely 8-10.

If you really want sterility put a second precoat of you 0.8-1.0 micron on as well before body feed and ensuring to clean/rinse well dosing reservoir between precoats. I would avoid this though and use a cartridge filtration into kegs from bright, if you're looking for longer keg shelf life/absence of any yeast in your kegs.

Body feed, I'm suggesting you try anyways, should be 30% 0.8-1.0 micron and 70% of the 8-10.

Dose heavily during body feed.

Pax.

Liam

[En' Garde]

A couple more "tricks" to try:

1) precoat with a sandwich of DE, use the fine grade first ~4 lbs. then ~ 4 lbs. of coarse grade. It can help with blinding issues.
2) after precoat slow the filter flow way down, like to 20 hL/hr
3) as you do "the move", open inlet valve then gently open the filter outlet and slowly close the recirculation valve, this will slow the actual flow of turbid beer into the filter and by manipulating those 2 valves while looking at the sight glass you can further avoid blinding. This will water the beer down a bit though so...
4) after the rough part goes through you can increase the flow back to ~ 40hL/hr, personally I wouldn't go faster.
5) if you have run the filter excessively at high pressure and low flow you may want to consider removing the filter plates and soak in caustic and possibly pressure wash them.

Cheers

Eric