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Thread: Biofine clear A3

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    216

    Question Biofine clear A3

    Anybody using this product at the moment ?

    I'm considering trying it in place of isinglass...

    Thanks

    Tariq (Big Ridge Brewery, Surrey, B.C.)

  2. #2
    mic_mac Guest
    Hi Tariq,

    are you thinking of using it in tank or cask?

    i.e. do you (or anyone else) know if it would work in cask in the same way as isinglass does? - that it's able to fine the beer several times, until the important one on the stillage.

    cheers,
    MikeMcG.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
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    216

    Exclamation Biofine Clear A3

    Hi Mike,

    Yes Cellartank mainly but I do a fair amount of cask as well, so I'm going to give that a go as well.

    I'll post my thoughts after I try it out.......

    Cheers!

    T

  4. #4
    mic_mac Guest
    Hi Tariq,
    I'd be really keen to hear how you get on.

    Despite the maker 'Kerry Bioscience' being based in nearby Ireland, & the obvious 'Holy Grail' of a veggie isinglass-replacement for cask beer, I've never heard of anyone using it in the UK.

    cheers
    MikeMcG

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    35
    Tariq,

    I have used the Biofine and would not recommend it for unfiltered beers. After explaining our procedures to our supplier, he recommended this as an isinglass replacement for Murphy & Sons Caskleer paste, which they had stopped carrying. I noticed that while it flocs out the yeast very quickly it never really packs tightly.

    In addition to fining casks, we treat some unfiltered beers with the isinglass. It is dosed inline throughout the run. Two days later, we dump off the dirty beer in the bottom (dish bottom, no standpipe), approx. 1-2 gal in a 15 bbl batch. It runs clear after that (looks filtered) until the very end. When we open the tank after it is empty, there is just thick yeast, tightly packed on the bottom.
    After using this same procedure with the biofine and giving the beer a week in the tank (with a standpipe), we began to keg off the whole batch for distribution. This tank had no sight glass, but we know our typical yield. When it ran dirty early we were flummoxed by the low yield. Lo and behold, we open up the tank to find 2 bbls of muddy beer. We had done some rudimentary trials and fined some casks and felt we were in the right range. Upon discussing this with my supplier, he stated that it was really intended more for beer that would be filtered.

    We are now using Murphy & Sons Magicol 250 AS. It is a dried isinglass preparation that works the same as the paste. You'll need a high shear mixer, like a wand mixer from any home store, and it needs to be prepared several days in advance, but works well. We are now working through the rest of the biofine for cask fining. It works ok for that. Not great, and you'll have more loss if you like to serve clear cask ales.

    Hope this helps and it's not too late!

    Cheers,
    Travis
    Travis Hixon
    Blackstone Brewing Co.
    Nashville, TN
    travis@blackstonebrewery.com

  6. #6
    mic_mac Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by TNbrewer
    Tariq,

    I have used the Biofine and would not recommend it for unfiltered beers.

    <snips>

    We are now working through the rest of the biofine for cask fining. It works ok for that. Not great, and you'll have more loss if you like to serve clear cask ales.
    Arse! (as we impolitely say in exasperation over here).

    Am I right in thinking from your final sentence that serving cloudy cask ales is a regular thing in US/Canada? (my first experience of US cask beer a few years back involved me being poured a pint of yeast! - no kidding )

    I'd heard rumours that in some US brewing/drinking circles, a fair amount haze was expected - proof of the unfiltered nature?

    Visible haze in a pint glass of UK cask beer is almost tantamount to diacetyl in a German brewer's lager - a hara-kiri offence.
    (to me a little haze is fine, but yeast-bite or other flavour faults are a real no-no).
    cheers
    MikeMcG

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    35
    Mike,

    Yes, I'm afraid it's true. We like to serve ours clear or with only a very slight haze (read: Biofine). But the majority of cask ale I've had here has been hazy to outright murky. I've actually had some brewers (you know who you are) tell me ours should be cloudier because that's what US customers expect! Yes, I believe it is "for proof of the unfiltered nature." We have folks who have a hard time believing our fined beers aren't filtered because they are clear.

    Cheers,
    Travis
    Travis Hixon
    Blackstone Brewing Co.
    Nashville, TN
    travis@blackstonebrewery.com

  8. #8
    mic_mac Guest
    So, the obvious question (& one Peter Austin always asked) -
    "how does the beer taste?" (in places that purposely sell it pretty cloudy)

    Or are they using that weird wheat-beer haze-additive stuff?
    cheers
    MikeMcG

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    35
    "how does the beer taste?" (in places that purposely sell it pretty cloudy)
    Not usually to my liking.

  10. #10
    mic_mac Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by TNbrewer
    Not usually to my liking.
    why is there no "smiley" for my current expression of "not surprised"!?



    Cask beer can be sublime beer, some of the best in the world in my experience, but not if it is choc-full of yeast!

    cheers
    MikeMcG

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    216

    Biofine Clear A3

    Thanks Travis,

    No it's not too late, haven't ordered it yet......hmmm!

    Yes cask cellarmanship is not really at the same level as we used to do it in the U.K.


    Thanks for the tips !

    Tariq

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    681
    I use biofine for casks and tanks. Works great, and so easy! Plus, you can boil it to sanitize before you use it and it still works!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,108
    And there is some pretty p... poor cellarmanship in the UK, as you probably remember all too well. However, not much compares to some of the so called cask beer I have had in Canada (no experience of the States). However, it is not helped by being served at what I guess was about 4 or 5 C, teeth rattling even when you had just come in from minus 20 - so a definite protein haze helped the poor presentation

    And don't forget to consider kettle finings and auxillary finings if simple isinglass isn't fully effective

    Cheers
    dick

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
    Posts
    819
    Won't jump into the fining thing as I don't use them. The idea of a vegetarian fining, however, is very appealing to some and it's further development should be encouraged.

    Just a note on Canadian Cask beer. Don't know where your experience(s) were with Canadian Cask Beer Dick, but if you're ever in Toronto, I must recommend http://www.barvolo.com/ .

    Great spot and some great beers.

    Pax.

    Liam

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    216

    Question Finings

    Liam,

    Just curious as to your reasons to not use finings, Do you filter ?

    T

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