In-line grist hydration

[jesterking]

Tapping into the collective wisdom for any advice regarding in-line grist hydration. Basically, we'd like to hydrate outside the mash tun and pump the mash into the tun from below. Reason being, we'd think we could mash in quickly, say 15-20 min, and avoid addt'l hot side aeration. Rough sketch attached. Any ideas on design/implementation?

Cheers,

Michael Steffing
Jester King Craft Brewery

[BrewinLou]

Take a look at these guys.

http://www.meura.com/products-and-services/milling-plant/wet-fine-milling/hydromill.htm

[Ted Briggs]

Im thinking steels masher--- Nodding head in Philly got one a few years back- dont know where from.
Also this thread:

http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13144

[Guest]

Im thinking steels masher--- Nodding head in Philly got one a few years back- dont know where from.
Also this thread:
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=13144

There seems to be one for sale in UK here

http://www.gbltd.co.uk/pages/equipment_pages/masher.htm

(not sure of capacity)

Again in UK, Thornbridge Brewery have recently installed new plant including a Steele's Masher, presumably made by their main contractor, Velo of Italy http://www.velo-group.com

cheers
MikeMcG

[jesterking]

Thanks

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like there are some robust (read: expensive) commercial options. I guess I'm envisioning something simpler ... a mixing vessel for the grist and hot liquor, with an outlet for transfer to the M/L tun.

The geometry of the vessel and position of the liquor inlet(s) should accomplish what the commercial options accomplish through churning mechanisms.

Will post photos whenever a prototype is up and running.


Michael

[Vendetta]

Here's a pic of Nodding Head's masher. The sight glass is a nice feature to have.

[Guest]

Have you seen DME's mashing system? - it's a really nice design, all stainless, involving a small cone inside a pipe, the grist pours down the over the outside of the cone; hot liquor is sprayed up into the underside of the cone, then sprays onto the descending malt.

Our grist case was directly above the mash tun - malt flow was regulated by a simple knife gate valve.

Dead simple, wets the malt very well & is such an open design, that nothing seems to get blocked up.

cheers,
MikeMcG.

[beermkr]

I have the DME version on my current system and it works well but I find that it builds up some paste on the sides.

On my old system I welded two four inch long TC fittings end to end and then welded a one inch tc perpendicular to the side. Where the one inch was welded on we drilled like 8 holes at various angles in the four inch part.

It works well and I think not having anything in the way helps the flow. Geoff at AleWerks could post a picture.

R/

[bcofresi]

Have you seen DME's mashing system? - it's a really nice design, all stainless, involving a small cone inside a pipe, the grist pours down the over the outside of the cone; hot liquor is sprayed up into the underside of the cone, then sprays onto the descending malt.


MikeMcG.

This sounds like the design on my Century system built in 1993. My system is set up to mash into the kettle and then I pump the mash to a lauter. It will mash in 850 lbs of grist in 14 minutes with a 1" hot water infeed. The pump is a very open impeller, large, sanitary centrifugal pump with a 3" inlet and a 1.5" outlet. It pumps over at about the same rate as mashing in, although I could speed it up as it has speed control, but that tends to beat up the mash some. It also beats out the entrained air and I get a very dense mashbed in the lauter compared to other systems where you mash in and level out with a paddle. The denser mashbed in the lauter is also a result of the higher liquor to grist ratio (at least 3:1) that I must use in order to be able to transfer with a centrifugal pump. If you want to have lower L:G ratio I would look into a progressive cavity pump like wineries use to pump must (I would suggest finding a used one, since they're more expensive than a sanitary centrifugal pump). So then, your system might have a hydrator, like the style described, under your gristcase, with a progressive cavity pump under your hydrator, pumping with high pressure, anywhere you want. Sounds like a very doable and worthy project to me.

Brian Cofresi
Brewmaster
River City Brewing Co.
Sacramento, CA

"Brewing without a helmet since 1993"

[Guest]

I have the DME version on my current system and it works well but I find that it builds up some paste on the sides.

I found that too, but it was easy enough to remove (as long as you don't fall off the mash-tun roof onto concrete like I did ) so I used to clean it out straight after I'd mashed in, while everything was still wet, before it dried on & became like pebble-dash).

cheers
MikeMcG

[Ted Briggs]

Vendetta?

"Here's a pic of Nodding Head's masher. The sight glass is a nice feature to have."
Do you know where they got it from?

[Vendetta]

I inquired about its origin when I was an assistant there, and I don't think I ever got a definitive answer. I got the impression that it was a custom job, and could easily be fabricated by any competent machine-shop for several thousand dollars.

[jesterking]

So then, your system might have a hydrator, like the style described, under your gristcase, with a progressive cavity pump under your hydrator, pumping with high pressure, anywhere you want.

Exactly.

After asking around, I think it will be possible to pump the hydrated grist with a centrifugal pump that has a NPSH-lowering inducer. (APV makes such a pump with an inducer here.) Thus, we could avoid having to buy a pricey positive displacement pump.

Michael

[gabewilson50]

Exactly.

After asking around, I think it will be possible to pump the hydrated grist with a centrifugal pump that has a NPSH-lowering inducer. (APV makes such a pump with an inducer.) Thus, we could avoid having to buy a pricey positive displacement pump.

Michael

Usually the reason that a positive displacement pump is used in this application is to prevent shearing of the grain, which causes headaches in runoff. As far as I know, this shearing occurs in the impeller of the pump and not the inlet, so while that inducer looks really cool and useful for other applications, I don't think it will help you for pumping grist. If you have been promised something else from the manufacturer then that's something else, but otherwise you're risking making every brew day a nightmare.

My $0.02

--Gabe

[Smuttynose]

Mash Pump

Our system was originally set up to mash into our kettle as a mash mixer and then pump the mash over to the lauter tun. The pump is a fairly standard centrifugal pump. It's oversized and the impeller is made for low sheer. If you call around to a sanitary pump supplier and explain your application they should be able to set you up.


Cheers,

dave