CIP Cleaning for a cimec 12/1..advice?
#11 Today, 08:35 AM
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006
We are beginning to pick up some funkiness in some of our beers. Tests at the tank, filter, and bright tank level are negative. We will be plating our rinse water this week. I was wondering if for better information on how to clean a cimec 12/1 1996 dble pre –evac bottler better, and if that is my problem...
Here's what I do currently
I first fill up machine with really really hot water (180f). I do this twice, draining the bowl each time. then I take 140 F caustic at 2% and use a yeast prop tank as a "holding vessel" for this caustic solution. I use the diaphram pump to pull from this, filling the machine. I have one of the vent tubes open and I fill the bowl until it comes out the Vent tube and the CO2 inlet tube (disconnected at the source). Then I put beer bottles into the machine have them "run" through the machine making sure the fill tubes get cleaned. One thing I do not have on is the vacuum pump and that maybe where I am picking up some bugs. Should I have vacuum pump on during this time with the caustic solution in the filler bowl?
After 10 minutes soak time, I then drain the machine. Fill it up twice with really hot water to rinse caustic. then I fill it up twice with municipal water to cool down. then I use a 700 ppm P.A.A. (periacetic acid) solution through the diaphram pump to sanitize. Again I have this come out the CO2 line and use this solution to santitize the outside of the machine and under the fill tube carriages. I also send this solution through the fill tubes and into bottles to sanitize though lines. Again, the vacuum pump is not on, and maybe it should be!!!
When the machine is done (we only use once a week for an 800 case run). We use a mild caustic solution at cooler temps to fill up the machine and let sit for 1 hour. Then drain. Rinse with really hot water through all tubes. And then drain. And then fill with cool water and pack in water until the next week….
Please advise if you have any other suggestions? Again My thought is the vacuum tubes have never been cleaned b/c I do not have the pump on during the cleaning process….
I have heard of CIP “cups” I could install
That was a suggestion from someone a while ago….
Any advice would be great!
Are you CIPing your beer pipe to the filler? Are you testing your chemicals to make sure they are at the proper concentrations? I recommend using CIP cups when you CIP. Do not leave water in your filler unless it is treated.
I am not sure who supplies your chemicals but you may want to try theses or something similar.
Suggested JohnsonDiversey Cleaning Chemicals:
Benefit at 200 ppm - CIP
Divosan MH at 12.5 to 25 ppm – Sanitization
1. CIP the filler. Fill solution cart with HOT Water, approximately 120°F and Benefit. If water is too hot it will flash off the chemicals. Use test kit to make sure it is at 200 ppm. concentration. Crack opens all sampling ports and drain valves to allow solution to flow through them and then shut off. Make sure vacuum unit piping is circulated with chemicals.
2. Once CIP is completed, flush the system out with water.
3. Fill the filler bowl with ambient water (not over 100º) and Divosan MH (sanitizer). Use test kit to make sure it is a 12.5 to 25 ppm concentration. Valves must be in the closed position.
Make sure Benefit and Divosan do not mix. They could gas off.
Hang warning signs around the filler for safety reasons.
Leave solution in bowl until you restart.
Just prior to using the equipment again, the concentration of the Divosan MH must be checked. If the test is positive the bowl may be flushed (approximately 3 time) until there is no Divosan MH detected. If the test is negative refill the bowl with Divosan MH solution keep it in the filler for 5 minutes.
Flush the filler. Test to make sure there is no solution in the bowl.
Our process is to prep the filler by running 180° water through the filler and lines for 1/2 hour, blow down with CO2 then cool with chilled deaerated water that has been run though a UV sterilizer.
Cleaning involves a recirculating caustic (only about .5%, we have been told that stronger solutions are hard on the soft parts and there is a pretty low soil load in the filler). This is followed by another hot water rinse.
Like you, we run all of these processes with bottles in place.
One thing we are doing that you don't mention is to run the hot water for sanitizing and the caustic through the buttons too. We installed a cam on the back side of the filler to actuate all the buttons while the bottles are in place. We have installed Tees in the gas lines that allow us to flush the solutions through the gas lines to just after the gas regulators (I also suggest putting check valves in above the regulators to avoid accidentally running caustic back into them if you don't get the valves closed). The tees lead to a bucket to collect the caustic. The vacuum line is disconnected from the pump and also feeds into the bucket. We dump the bucket back into the CIP reservoir by hand (for the hot water, we just run to the drain). This process effectively cleans and sanitizes the passages through the buttons as well.
We do not use any chemical sanitizers.
One thing we were recently told by a Cimec tech was that we should avoid running any of these hot solutions at over about 3 psig to avoid damage to seals.
So far, we have not had issues with counts from bottles using this technique.
Just out of curiosity, what is you average short fill count on an 800 case run?
We CIP ALL lines to the filler bowl.
Chemicals get titrated, with the caustic at 2.5%. PPA at 650 ppm.
What you suggest for "untreated" water...or do you simply mean filtered?
Tests just came back from rinse water to beer bottles. One week, there was NASTY stuff, following week, o growth. Both bottle runs have had beer bottles go to White Labs for prfessional analysis. This should yeild great clues.
I spoke with Dirk Loeffler about this, maybe getting a dositron pump to treat rinse water with PAA in line to spank any germs. In the meantime, now using hot water from HLT to rinse bottles, but still using municipal water to rinse inside of beer bottles.
Thanks to Free state brewing for supplying some pictures on some good engineering for cleaning the "buttons".
For those that have immediate questions that I got answered quickly, there was a fella at Prospero named Richard that was quite helpful.
I am working on a manual right now for operation of the machine...is there a place that this can get posted/downloaded when I am done? Obviously this will be written by us and may not be 100% right, but at least it is a start!