Cask Canner seam issues

[South County]

Neat thread, but what does it have to do with "employee issues", Admin, wanna shift this thread to the correct location?!

[Buster]

I noticed that.....I agree!

[jakester]

Photos

Buster

Do you have photos of your de-palletizer and can sensor you could put up here? I'd love to do something similar.

[Buster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVoeQHI7-b0

Here is an amateur video of it in action....

I would love to build another depalletizer. I have improvements that I would like to make on it already!

matt@skabrewing.com

[Brother Ethan]

Sorry Mr. Doyle. The Christmas Vacation got the best of me and I haven't taken the time to get back to this Thread. Matt's post covers most of it. I will add that tearing down the can by hand is by far the most useful seam analysis one can do. The Kuhnke seam analyzer is a great tool but a hand tear down gives you the best information.
i.e. any ripples in the body or cover hook means that your seams are not ironed out. The body and cover hook need to be flat. Wrinkles occur from the nature of the first operator function, but should be ironed out by the second op's function. If it isn't than most likely the second op is to far out, or not coming in soon enough, or air pressure is low, or piston is going bad, or air regulator is going bad, or speed control valve is going bad. Wrinkle could come from the second op being to close too. Only experience and experimenting will help.

Biggest problem i have face with this single head seamer is bad bearings. We recently purchased a brand new designed built by Angelus and designed by the fellows at Brick Brewing. They do a much better job at keeping the water out of the bearings but the bearings are still getting moisture. 2 days ago, I figured out how to disassemble them on the machine without getting the op's out of adjustment. Now we will be able to clean them everyday! Hurray, this will prevent one possible problem.

Another great improvement to the machine, as Matt mentioned early, are the prox sensors, sensing a missing lid on the can before it gets pushed into the seamer. Matt did not mention the story behind it. It came to him in his sleep. He left the warmth of his bed his very hot wife, to come down to the brewery and try his idea. It worked great and is saving us beer and adjustments on the seamer. For another part of this story, you should ask Matt about what Cask told him when he proposed his idea to them. (By the way Matt, Brick installed a sensor for the same reason).

To our friends in Chicago: Have you tried using the crank shaft bearing in the rollers? I have found out recently that by changing how fast the roll moves into the can, completely changes the overall seam. Too fast and you'll damage the seam, too slow and op's don't get enough time. Also, if you move the op's off the seam too quickly the op's don't get enough time. I would suggest, quickly in and slow to release.

Air pressure is how these seams come together, running the canner at 110psi makes me feel better about the seams but I don't like that air is the acting force. Would much rather a mechanical seamer built with an electric motor and cams!

Happy new Year! ethan@skabrewing.com

[South County]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVoeQHI7-b0

Here is an amateur video of it in action....

I would love to build another depalletizer. I have improvements that I would like to make on it already!

matt@skabrewing.com

I can applaud the pride and the attention to detail, but is it really cost effective to have your guys orienting each can before dropping the 6-pack rings. Maybe it takes less time than I think it does. All I can say is more power to ya. For as expensive as the 5 head is, you would think the plastic ring dropper would be automated. Cool setup.

[Socorro Springs]

PPM canner?

Anybody have experience with PPM's bottling buddy/canner? We just closed on our newest building in which we will be buying a semi-auto canner. Trying to weigh the difference between the two.

http://www.ppmconcepts.com/buddy_filler.htm

Some questions specifically:

What does everyone do for the prerinse? Liquid or air? If liquid are you using water, or a sanitizer? Which sanitizer?

Any other mfgs of canners besides PPM or Cask that have a semi auto filler that we should be considering?

Any good sources of info out there besides Probrewer.com (you guys are great but thinking more of a "guide to microbrew cans, etc" )

Ball or Crown cans? Let's hear some opinions?

Cheers,
Mic

Socorro Springs Brewing Co
Eddyline Restaurant & Brewing Co.
719-221-9463

[Buster]

I can applaud the pride and the attention to detail, but is it really cost effective to have your guys orienting each can before dropping the 6-pack rings. Maybe it takes less time than I think it does. All I can say is more power to ya. For as expensive as the 5 head is, you would think the plastic ring dropper would be automated. Cool setup.

As much as it sucks to face the cans,when asked whether to face or not, our sales people and liquor store managers say that the our cans and artwork "pop" so much more than the brands that don't face, it is worth the effort, at least until we automate......Half the battle of beer sales is marketing, right?

[Buster]

Anybody have experience with PPM's bottling buddy/canner? We just closed on our newest building in which we will be buying a semi-auto canner. Trying to weigh the difference between the two.

http://www.ppmconcepts.com/buddy_filler.htm

Some questions specifically:

What does everyone do for the prerinse? Liquid or air? If liquid are you using water, or a sanitizer? Which sanitizer?

Any other mfgs of canners besides PPM or Cask that have a semi auto filler that we should be considering?

Any good sources of info out there besides Probrewer.com (you guys are great but thinking more of a "guide to microbrew cans, etc" )

Ball or Crown cans? Let's hear some opinions?

Cheers,
Mic

Socorro Springs Brewing Co
Eddyline Restaurant & Brewing Co.
719-221-9463

Mic,

When you find the guide to microbrew in cans, let me know, I'd like to see it and hopefully learn something from it. I am pretty sure we are writing it here in this thread.
To answer your questions:

We are using water for our prerinse

I don't know anything about PPM's canner or services. You could search probrewer for PPM threads as there have been several in the past. There is another company called Wild Goose Engineering that just made a canner for Upslope Brewing in Boulder. Google it. Other than that, if you find anything else out there please post on here who they are.

We use cans from Ball and they are a pleasure to deal with. The plant is also 6 hours from us, so that weighs heavy on our decision to use them. From what I understand, if you choose a Cask filler, you will have to modify the seaming table to accommodate the Crown can. I don't believe Cask will do that as they are the broker for all cans coming from Ball. In other words, if you buy a cask filler, you have to buy Ball cans through Cask until you break the 5 million/year mark. At that point in time you can go straight to Ball. It kind of sucks for us to have to place an order through a non US company who then has to place the order to the plant which is 6 hours away from us. I do wish there was a different arrangement. More power to Cask for locking this agreement into place. It sucks to have our money leave the US, let alone Colorado, and for it to immediately return to the US a little short.

Cheers

matt@skabrewing.com

[South County]

Half the battle of beer sales is marketing, right?

You are correct sir!

[Buckley]

I ran across these guys a while back. Haven't had much to do with then aside from a few phone conversations.

http://draganinnovations.com/

[Brother Ethan]

gitchegumee... what machine you running by Cask?
2head manual? 5 head auto?


Brother Ethan.. I loved when I saw this post because I am about to purchase a canner(could be another 6 months though) and would love to hear more about peoples' experiences with these machines. I guess now I would ask you to spend that 2 hrs time slot when its convenient to add to this vital and interesting topic you started and share your problems challenges and triumphs.

I know the brand spanking new Baxter Brewing in Maine is about to start running their 2010 model 5head cask machine. Maybe Michael will chime in here?

Hello Matthew. I have to praise the 5 head filler first, because it does a great job of filling a can with clean, almost oxygen free beer. It is simple and easy to fix when problems arrise. I like the machine a lot and it has been very good to us.

The air driven seam set-up is not good! They need a cam controlled seamer that doesn't rely on air... in my opinon.

[Brother Ethan]

...and when I say easy to fix, I am referring to the filling portion of the machine, not the seamer. Cheers

[chaser]

Matt and Ethan,

That canning line sure has come along way from hand filling and seaming 15 bbl esb tanks...congrats, can't wait to visit Durango in February and check out the two canning lines in action.

Chase

[Jeff The Brewer]

President/ Head Brewer

The info provided in this discussion is priceless! My company DC Brau Brewing in Washington, DC purchased a used Cask automated 5 head filler a couple months ago. It's the model from 07' or 08' can't recall at this time. For me packaging is my weakest area of expertise. We are not currently running the canning line because we are still building out our brewery after much unanticipated delays. I am really excited to be canning our product and all the advice I have read per this thread makes me feel better about that first virgin run of cans.

Keeping my fingers crossed

Jeff Hancock
President/ Head Brewer
DC Brau Brewing LLC

https://www.dcbrau.com