TTB, Tasting room separation

[Fullcourt]

Hey forumites,
We are just about to submit our ttb app for our new production facility and while crossing T's and dotting I's, I am concerned about this potential snag regarding the separation between taproom and brewery.

I would like to get the approval on the first go around and there is no possible way we can build a permanent wall. We need something removable and affordable.

Has anyone come up with anything or seen anything that will pass?

Is it all about what agent you get at the ttb?

has anyone built a brewery in the last 2 years with minimal barrier- i.e. stanchions or moveable metal fencing?

Thanks

Jonathon, contact Chris Enegren (Captain EBC in this thread). Enegren Brewing Co in Moorpark. They built a half wall and a gate.
signed Mike Lanzarotta, I have to change my forum name.

[bellinmi]

Things have changed over time. In the 90's you could build a brewery right behind the bar in a brewpub! But not anymore. Now things have to be separate.

Just wait until your code inspector tells you that you have to install sprinklers in the whole building because a brewery is a fire hazard!

Did they make you do that?

[J.Scholb]

TTB also asking us for a wall, minimum 6 ft

This seems to be a reoccurring theme. I expected that the TTB may not like the proposed chain and yellow line. However as the 6th brewery in our small Southern Californian town I thought I could also get permission to not have a wall. Not sure what the secret is, but we will propose a 42" high railing and see if they are ok with that.

Any other ideas on a polite way to negotiate out of having to do a 6 ft wall? The locking fermenter valves is one thing I will also try.

[mmussen]

Just some food for thought. Even after TTB approval you will still need local/city approval as well. I've known a few brewers that have had to redesign the separation to please local inspectors.
A friend of mine was approved by the TTB for a half wall, and after plans had been submitted, permits pulled etc a local inspector decided that it was a fire hazard. Options were to add a fire sprinkler system to the entire building, or put a 2 hour fire rated separation between anywhere that customers were and the brewery. It was a very unpleasant and expensive surprise.

[Dansrc51P]

we are on our third try with our TTB processor and the dreaded "wall" idea. Based on hundreds of other breweries, there is literally no consistency with expectations and approval. Some have a wall, some have a chain, some have a painted stripe. I know a brewery in Portland that for years literally had no separation and patrons could sit on the steps of the brew-house catwalk, or lean against a fermenter.

I'm doing my utmost to be patient with a federal agency that, for some reason, has no real conception about what happens in a brewery. At least that's my impression. Frustrated does not begin to describe how we feel dealing with them......

[MMBW]

I have a brewery with a similar set up except it's only the brew system behind the wall, the fermenters are in the basement. We submitted our TTB app with a 4 ft wall separating the tasting room from the brewing area. The TTB came back and said it needed to be a minimum of 6ft tall (could be 4 ft wall topped with 2ft of fencing or plexiglass, etc...) or put locks on the tanks. We replied in the email that we would put the plexi on top and they noted it on our application and approved the application days later. Our approval in was July 2013

[yap]

I find it amazingly funny (in a sad way) how unequally the rules are applied. I understand how the rules may slowly shift over several years but that's not always what I see going on.

In the past two years in this town I have seen everything from 4' walls to a rope to a very small ledge (step up) being approved for proper tasting room separation from the brewery. It's already tough enough to get set up in this business with the rules (and/or interpretation thereof) changing every day...

This goes for TTB, State and local authorities...

[J.Scholb]

got approval for 42" railing

It was a little scary to hear that they wanted a 6' wall, but we very politely requested to do a 42" railing instead and the TTB agreed a few days later. We needed the railing to keep the tasting room size contained for the City so this worked out very well. I have had good luck with them being pretty quick to respond to phone messages.

My advice is to stay patient and polite and budget for at least 6 months of rent to startup (probably more like 12).