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  • alternative to typical fermenter

    if anyone that is creative can help me out I would appreciate it....I am in the process of opening a small scale "edgy" brew pub where I am brewing 1BBL to 5BBLs at a time....I don't want to use the typical stainless flashy "corporate" system that you see everywhere else in the world and I also don't want to invest the $s at the same time....reason being, I am going to attempt 5 house brews at 5BBLs each on a regular basis but then I would also like to pop out 10 to 20 1BBL one off batches a month....seeing that I will need a lot of individual fermenters, what can I use that will hold the pressure while not looking too flashy and not looking like junk at the same time?

  • #2
    Wow!

    typical stainless flashy "corporate" system that you see everywhere else in the world
    I agree,it obviously doesn't work and its very flashy and corporate, not to mention I think its a fad that will be ending soon.

    I also don't want to invest the $s at the same time
    Right, investing money in your equipment is silly, how's it ever going to repay you?

    Check out this sight http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/ite...2955&catid=513

    They have plastic tanks that are getting really popular in the brewing world, I know a lot of defunct breweries that used them.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by MikeRoy; 06-01-2011, 10:16 PM.
    Cheers,
    Mike Roy
    Brewmaster
    Franklins Restaurant, Brewery & General Store
    5123 Baltimore Ave
    Hyattsville,MD 20781
    301-927-2740

    Franklinsbrewery.com
    @franklinsbrwry
    facebook.com/franklinsbrewery

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow! Nice response Mike. I was wondering where this may go, so I will add my two cents.

      high quality equipment in a brewery is absolutely the number priority for me. Obviously there is so much more to it than a blanket statement like that, but come on PRC Group... you call label yourself as a consultant. Invest in proper equipment of whatever materials you feel will work for your process.

      Not sure why you don't want steel... but other than some woods out there, there is no better material to let a beer rest in.

      As far as brewing 1BBL -5BBL at a time??? You plan to have more than one brewhouse? you could build a system like that in theory but it sounds to me like you need to educate yourself more about the equipment side of things before you think about sizes of certain batches.

      either way, Good luck and study hard. This business will chew you up and spit you out if you don't have all the required skills and knowledge.
      ________________
      Matthew Steinberg
      Co-Founder
      Exhibit 'A' Brewing Co.
      Framingham, MA USA

      Head Brewer
      Filler of Vessels
      Seller of Liquid
      Barreled Beer Aging Specialist
      Yeast Wrangler
      Microbe Handler
      Malt Slinger
      Hop Sniffer
      Food Eater
      Music Listener

      Comment


      • #4
        Have to agree with the educuate yourself line, but i guess thats why you posted in the forum. Not sure any of us understand what you mean by Flashy Corporate Tanks??? If you are referring to Conical Fermenters, yes some are polished to a mirror finish or have Copper "wraps" for the more fancy Showpeice Style Systems but the internal workings of the tanks are essintially the same.

        If you plan to make a living on beer, 1 BBL = 2 kegs... and i am sorry to say my friend but that don't last long if you're selling enough beer to pay the bills. Also consider the labor that goes into a batch- 5 gallons, 1 barrel, 10 barrels.... it's all a brewDAY.

        Originally posted by MatthewS
        This business will chew you up and spit you out if you don't have all the required skills and knowledge.
        Wize words the Matthew speaks he does.
        Jeff Byrne

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        • #5
          Originally posted by PRC Group
          what can I use that will hold the pressure while not looking too flashy and not looking like junk at the same time?
          Big, heavy duty plastic bags?

          Oh wait, I know, glass lined concrete bunkers.

          I knew it would come to me.

          Liam
          Liam McKenna
          www.yellowbellybrewery.com

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          • #6
            or Clay Pots like the Sumerians used. Definitely edgy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MikeRoy

              They have plastic tanks that are getting really popular in the brewing world, I know a lot of defunct breweries that used them.

              Cheers,
              Easy there Mike. Our brewery is growing very rapidly to support fantastic demand for our products fermented in *gasp* plastic. Granted we are growing into 60 bbl stainless conicals, we started with 3 bbl poly conicals and our beer is delicious and popular.

              To the OP, obviously stainless jacketed tanks are the best option. But give plastic tanks consideration if that's your business plan budget. Just dont plan on using them forever.

              Andrew
              Andrew Godley
              Parish Brewing Co.
              Broussard, Louisiana

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the nice post Andrew. People come here to get information and I don't think people needs to be dicks about it. We use plastic as well as many others and it works fine.
                Tim Eichinger
                Visit our website blackhuskybrewing.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by callmetim
                  People come here to get information and I don't think people needs to be dicks about it. We use plastic as well as many others and it works fine.
                  I think someone touched a nerve.

                  The reality of plastic is that it is much more porous than stainless. It is also subject to abrasion/pitting from repeated CIP over the years. This is unavoidable. This will ultimately affect the ability to clean and sanitize these tanks properly. No matter what type of plastic you use. Same goes for plastic kegs.

                  Could be good for a few years I suppose if you have serious capital challenges. I wouldn't buy a used plastic tank though. Ever. That might just be me. I can live with that.

                  Hell, I won't even drink water out of a plastic bottle.

                  When Mike said ' I know a lot of defunct breweries that used them' he was speaking the truth. So do I. If that doesn't sit well with you that's your problem.

                  If you think I'm a dick for saying that then I think you're an ass with his head in the sand. So there.

                  I offer my best advice to this forum. And so does Mike.

                  Admittedly with some sarcasm and a little twisted humor sometimes...

                  Pax.

                  Liam
                  Liam McKenna
                  www.yellowbellybrewery.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tim,
                    Congrats on your success. No one is trying to be a dick. I have witnessed some brewers in recent years fail though because they did not have sufficient understanding of the industry that they invested their life savings to open. I don't want to see people lose their shirts.There's been plenty of threads on here previously on stainless vs. plastic fermenters and the only reason why I've ever seen someone choose plastic was because they didn't have the money for stainless. I've never heard one brewer say to me" I wish I had plastic instead of stainless". Can good beer be made in plastic? Sure it can. Does every brewery that use plastic have wonderful results? Not as far as I've seen. Home brewers often don't realize that jumping from 5-6 gallon plastic buckets to 100-200 gallon plastic fermenters is a huge change for fermentation/conditioning since there's a larger thermal mass and its much harder to control temperature.

                    This industry is getting more and more competitive every day. I want every brewery that opens to succeed, but sometimes people are uninformed and in this case the OP has made it sound as if choosing stainless is in some way rolling out three minute bubble gum diddys for the radio..."selling out". Breweries choose stainless fermenters not because of their shininess but because of their ease of process and output of consistent product.

                    If my or Matt's sarcasm offends,so be it. Its not intended to be mean spirited, its trying to send a shock to the system to get people to really think about the industry and the business they are about dive in to. The last thing this industry needs again is another period like the mid 1990s were we saw a ton of growth in openings and many closings shortly thereafter within a few years.
                    Cheers,
                    Mike Roy
                    Brewmaster
                    Franklins Restaurant, Brewery & General Store
                    5123 Baltimore Ave
                    Hyattsville,MD 20781
                    301-927-2740

                    Franklinsbrewery.com
                    @franklinsbrwry
                    facebook.com/franklinsbrewery

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As someone experienced with plastic, I hate my fermenters. I want to melt them down into puddles of hydrocarbons. None of the fittings are tuly sanitary and must be taken apart and cleaned/sani'd religiously. Every time I put my wort in them I say a little prayer. They are the worst option available for making beer commercially.

                      That being said, they work if you're careful about using them. They are cheap and add capacity, fast. The beer made in them can be fantastic. Mine have been in regular use for about 2 years and I think they would last another couple of years if I weren't growing out of them.

                      Andrew
                      Andrew Godley
                      Parish Brewing Co.
                      Broussard, Louisiana

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would rather use stainless but it is about capitol outlay. it is like using plastic kegs. I don't intend to use them forever as they have a definite short life cycle but they'll get you going until you develop working capitol and keep your debt lower.

                        I would bet there are more breweries defunct from excessive debt than because they used plastic fermenters.

                        My point is not plastic vs. stainless it's about being more civil. I get your point but it was much better made when you talk about porosity and being subject to abrasion rather than the sarcasm. People come here for information not sarcasm.

                        having said all that you guys have every right to post how and what you want.

                        and Mike thanks for the congrats but success can be defined in a lot of ways. Everyday is a struggle when you go the nano route but in this business I think it probably is for everybody. If success is working a fulltime job and running a brewery working 7 days a week 14 hours a day I have hit it big baby

                        Now I gotta go and get teh sand out of my ears.
                        Tim Eichinger
                        Visit our website blackhuskybrewing.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'll vote for stainless dressed in whatever you want..just take care that your wort/beer is in good "hands"..maybe start with less sorts of beer and add them later or just have them on tap like random(you know what is on tap when you're in pub).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PRC Group
                            ...I am in the process of opening a small scale "edgy" brew pub where I am brewing 1BBL to 5BBLs at a time?
                            Buy taps that look like fire hydrants and serve the beer in dog bowls, sell raw meats on sticks and let the customers cook them with blow torches, install Clown-head 'water race' feature (like at carnivals) on the urinals, teach your bartenders to do nipple piercings, sell t-shirts that say "Hipster duchebag and proud!"
                            Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
                            tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
                            "Your results may vary"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree with Tim

                              As a new brewer I rely on this website as an information resource. When people get made fun of for what they think is a serious question, it makes a lot of us less likely to post. Less information gets put out and this website will become less valuable. I hope people will think before posting the sarcasm. It doesn't do anyone any good.

                              Rich

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