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Thread: HX/Whirlpool Recirc

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    4

    HX/Whirlpool Recirc

    Did a quick search on this but wasn't able to find much. On my homebrew system I was able to use a modified version of Jamil Z's whirlpool chiller and got my knockout times down to 5 minutes. Granted this was with a chillzilla, so I wasn't terribly concerned about hop particulate.

    What I'm wondering is if a similar setup could be run on my 15 BBL system. To avoid hop matter clogging the HX, I'm thinking of going whole leaf and using hop socks. Then I'll pull off the kettle, pump through the HX, and then back into the kettle through the whirl port. I've really come to love the way this captures hop flavor and aroma, so I'm really keen on implementing it commercially, but don't want to foul up the HX in the process.

    Any tips from anyone who's tried this before? Any hop filters that might help to reduce the risk of clogging the HX?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cortland, NY
    Posts
    182
    I do this with my lager to prevent DMS formation and to limit the amount of hop utilization from hot wort contact with the hops during the knockout. Basically, I do a quick whirlpool then pull off the side of the tank thru the HX and back into the tank to cool everything down to about 180, then I proceed with the knockout.

    I use a streamline strainer from GW Kent

    http://breweryparts.com/index.php/fi.../strainer.html

    I also use a special "gasket strainer" as well to catch anything that makes it through the streamline strainer. While this works well with a lager that gets very little hops, not sure how it would work with an IPA or Pale. I suspect that I would be changing the streamline strainer mid knockout. If I didn't do a pre-whirlpool, I would also probably be changing the strainer as well.

    One concern is the utilization of the hops in the hop sock. I tried this once, and for the most part I assumed that they were wasted since they just floated on top of the wort with only a portion of the hops exposed. Perhaps smaller socks would work better, but it would be tedious to fill 25 socks with hops....

    I find that I get decent hop flavor by using a hop back. Not nearly as much as I did from late hop additions with an immersion chiller via my homebrew setup though....

    Another idea that I had was to use a separate jacketed whirlpool. Basically pump the wort out of the kettle and into a whirlpool that has a cold water or glycol jacket. The wort would be rapidly pumped from the kettle into the jacketed whirlpool in about 10 to 15 minutes to a temp that limits hop utilization, then once settled, run through the HX. This would probably most replicate the rapid initial cooling of the homebrew setup. That will remain on my wish list for now................

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by fa50driver
    I tried this once, and for the most part I assumed that they were wasted since they just floated on top of the wort with only a portion of the hops exposed.
    A few SS weights in a hop sock will help it sink enough to get good utilization I would think.

    But yeah - my thoughts were to do this for a super hoppy IPA, but having to change out a strainer mid knockout sounds like a royal PITA. Gotta mull this one over...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Syracuse, NY, USA
    Posts
    5
    I'm having the same problem with my 30 BBL system. We're whirlpooling/resting at ~195F. I'm losing my knockout addition flavors! How long does everyone let their wort whirlpool/rest post-whirlpool? I've heard of many different schools of thought, but nothing definitive. Currently, I'm 15 pool then 45 rest. I think it might be a bit overkill...?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Strongsville, Ohio
    Posts
    231
    Quote Originally Posted by JeavesBrew
    I'm having the same problem with my 30 BBL system. We're whirlpooling/resting at ~195F. I'm losing my knockout addition flavors! How long does everyone let their wort whirlpool/rest post-whirlpool? I've heard of many different schools of thought, but nothing definitive. Currently, I'm 15 pool then 45 rest. I think it might be a bit overkill...?

    Yea....thats overkill IMHO, especially your wirlpool time. We do 2 minutes at the most. I might take a paddle give it a few strong paddles to speed it up a lil more. My theory is....once you hit terminal volocity all your doing is shearing up your break in your pump. As for settling rest, ours is a 20 bbbl kettle and our rest is 20 minutes tops.


    JackK

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh, NY USA
    Posts
    220

    a bit long

    I've always gone with the idea that as soon as the whirlpool has stopped spinning it's time for KO. I don't really think it's doing anything whirlpool-wise beyond that. For my 7bbl kettle/whirlpool that means ten minutes of whirlpool and 15 minutes rest when it has stopped spinning. Then I'm off to the fermenter. Always had great trub piles with this method and can drain the kettle free of any hop matter on most of my brews (a little less efficient with the IPA of course but still getting most of the wort even with more than 1# of pellet hops per bbl).
    Maybe that will help...
    Cheers!
    Jay Stoyanoff
    Brewmaster
    Plattsburgh Brewing Co.
    Plattsburgh, NY

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
    Posts
    807
    Strikeout to whirlpool takes 7 minutes. Rest 15 til spinning stops, cool in 45 minutes.

    I'd like to knock 15 minutes off that.

    For those of you that precool your wort in the whirlpool, are you not concerned about leaving cold break in the whirlpool (sloppy trub pile) instead of the fermentor?

    Pax.

    liam
    Liam McKenna
    www.yellowbellybrewery.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    618
    Studies at Weinstephen have shown the you should get your wort into the FV in 90 mins MAX. I do= 5 min rest, 10 min whirlpool, 15 min rest, 40 min knockout. Initial 5 mins is for the boil to settle down, to lessen pump cavitation and when I add 'endboil' hops.
    IMHO it would be better to use kettle finings and avoid long whilpool rests.
    Operations Director, Tin Roof BC
    ted@tinroofbeer.com
    "Your results may vary"

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