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Thread: Amarillo Substitute

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    172

    Amarillo Substitute

    As a small, new brewery, we cant get any significant qty of Amarillo for next year. What other hop can I use to get that great tangerine citrus effect? I dont want to use Summit because sometimes it adds nastiness like garlic and onion. Any ideas? We use Amarillo w/ Cascade in our APA, FYI.
    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Fawn Grove, PA, USA
    Posts
    546
    Same issue here, we're looking at citra and athanum, but availability can still an issue. We've done some "teas" with a cascade and progress blend that looks promising.
    Another tough thing is how esters from the fermentation influence what the hops presence is.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh, NY USA
    Posts
    221

    my favorite

    Try chinook...it's got the grapefruit character that you would find in the Amarillo. Also it's not proprietary so shortages seemingly aren't an issue. I refuse to use proprietary hops because of these manufactured shortages...just my two cents...
    Cheers
    Jay Stoyanoff
    Brewmaster
    Plattsburgh Brewing Co.
    Plattsburgh, NY

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    226
    Just tried a great IPA with Galaxy as a sub for Amarillo. It was really awesome. Don't know the availability of Galaxy, but it's worth looking into.
    Mike Hiller, Head Brewer
    Strangeways Brewing
    2277-A Dabney Road
    Richmond, VA 23230
    804-303-4336
    www.strangewaysbrewing.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    212

    Cool Amarillo Substitute

    I'm facing the same issue with my IPA, I've recently tried out Apollo and Bravo dry hopped in cask and I was really pleased with the results, so I'm going to go with one of them for late additions and dry hopping.

    Cheers.

    T
    Tariq Khan (Brewer/Distiller)

    Yaletown Brewing and Distilling Co.
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Canada

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Athens, NY
    Posts
    429
    Has anyone tried Zythos yet? My supplier is offering it to replace the 30% of my 2012 Amarillo contract that I'm not going to get.
    Hutch Kugeman
    Head Beer Guy
    Crossroads Brewing
    Athens, NY

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by kugeman
    Has anyone tried Zythos yet? My supplier is offering it to replace the 30% of my 2012 Amarillo contract that I'm not going to get.
    If it's a contract isn't the supplier required to supply?
    Shouldn't you be brewing beer?
    HK

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by kugeman
    Has anyone tried Zythos yet? My supplier is offering it to replace the 30% of my 2012 Amarillo contract that I'm not going to get.
    Zythos is a blend much as Falcon Flight and the old "Centennial-type" are/were. Don't these pose the same issues as the other proprietary hops?
    Shouldn't you be brewing beer?
    HK

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Athens, NY
    Posts
    429
    They invoked "Force Majeure" which translated from French means "You're screwed".

    Apparently this year's harvest of Amarillo was down 30% and Sorachi Ace was down 67% due to weather. So they grower reps are passing that down to the suppliers who are in turn passing it down to the breweries. Now will all breweries be docked 30%? Who knows. But my contract is getting docked.

    I'll deal with it because there's no other choice. So, anyone tried Zythos?
    Hutch Kugeman
    Head Beer Guy
    Crossroads Brewing
    Athens, NY

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by kugeman
    They invoked "Force Majeure" which translated from French means "You're screwed".

    Apparently this year's harvest of Amarillo was down 30% and Sorachi Ace was down 67% due to weather. So they grower reps are passing that down to the suppliers who are in turn passing it down to the breweries. Now will all breweries be docked 30%? Who knows. But my contract is getting docked.

    I'll deal with it because there's no other choice. So, anyone tried Zythos?
    So what happens in the long run, five year contracts? Do they make up the 30% when there is a good crop year? Are you still obligated? Sounds like bullshit to me.
    Shouldn't you be brewing beer?
    HK

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Athens, NY
    Posts
    429
    I think it only applies to this year. But of course it's bullshit. It's the craft beer hop market...it's bullshit by definition.
    Hutch Kugeman
    Head Beer Guy
    Crossroads Brewing
    Athens, NY

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    9
    We have used zythos as an amarillo sub and are quite happy with it. It's pretty abundant too right now, according to Hop Union. Galaxy is good but I would say its a straight sub for amarillo. Also Galaxy is an Aussie Hop, will be ready in like june but good luck. It's another hop that everyone wants.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by HinduKush
    So what happens in the long run, five year contracts? Do they make up the 30% when there is a good crop year? Are you still obligated? Sounds like bullshit to me.
    Depending who you get them from, they offer subs, you can get the 30% next year or just charged for what you get. The big hop brokers as well as the small are saying the same thing about the crop sucking this year. So I don't think its bs. The one good thing though is AA% are higher this year so you'll have to use less for bittering.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Athens, NY
    Posts
    429
    I brewed a single-hop pale ale with Zythos to try it out. It has a sort-of generic American hop profile but it's definitely not Amarillo. Alot more of the pine/resiny type of flavors & aromas. It's a worthwhile hop blend but I don't think you could just sub it in for Amarillo.
    Hutch Kugeman
    Head Beer Guy
    Crossroads Brewing
    Athens, NY

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    4
    We tried some Zythos in a Black IPA and also found it very resiny. I was disappointed in the harshness at first. About two weeks after the beer went on tap, it definitely lost the baby fat and I felt the resiny edges were more integrated and the beer improved. I don't think I will be bring more Zythos once we use it up.
    Seth Gross
    Head Burger Flipper & Beer Tester
    Bull City Burger and Brewery
    Durham, NC 27701
    www.bullcityburgerandbrewery.com

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