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  • #46
    How cool of temperatures are people able to maintain. I would like to get below 35F. I am going to use a two pump 3/4hp set up to cool and maintain the cool temperature for several days on 2-7bbl fermenters. Thanks for any help.

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    • #47
      I think I've read and re-read this thread about 12 times trying to wrap my head around this.
      I just found this 1/3HP unit used locally and was wondering if it would work. http://www.beveragefactory.com/draft...35g-1_3t.shtml
      I am going to connect it to 3 3BBL fermenters. I know I will need an additional pump for this.

      What type of pump am I looking for, I haven't been able to find exactly what I need from the Foxx website. Does anyone know if this chiller unit will accept an additional pump.

      Thanks for all of the great information.

      Cheers,
      Andy

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      • #48
        A 1/3 hp unit will not cool (2) 3bbl tanks, it would do one of them. My 3/4 hp worked with (2) 2bbl and (1) 4bbl but when we upgraded them all to 4bbl it can barely keep up and I am rewiring things and either adding another chiller to take the load off or going with a big 3hp system to future proof things for me.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by RonD View Post
          How cool of temperatures are people able to maintain. I would like to get below 35F. I am going to use a two pump 3/4hp set up to cool and maintain the cool temperature for several days on 2-7bbl fermenters. Thanks for any help.
          I have two tanks at 32* right now hooked into the same 3/4hp chiller.

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          • #50
            What is everyone using for connections. I know these units are built for small diameter lines at high pressure so i'm trying to increase the line diameter. I was thinking of swapping out the 3/8" in and out barb on the foxx unit for 1/2" as CopperKettle did then my Brite has 3/4 hose barb connections and I was going to swap them out for 1/2 and pipe it with braided vinyl and foam tube. Sounds simple enough. Any one have any better set-ups I could consider?

            Also, is anyone adding a pressure reducer and gauge?

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            • #51
              External Thermostats for pumps??

              Hello,

              I took your advice and bought the 3/4hp unit from foxx and got the extra pump and two external thermostats. We are going to use this to chill several 7BBL tanks. We are curious about hooking up the external thermostats and want to find out where the external thermostat monitors are placed to check for temperature. It is essentially a long cord with a sensor on the end. Does it wrap around the return hose? Then when hooking the pumps up to the external thermostats do we cut the power cords on the pumps and wire directly into the thermostats?

              The unit itself has the same thermostat and we are guessing that it simply controls the glycol pump and glycol bath temp. We want the two external thermostats to control the pumps moving the glycol to the tanks with dialed in temps. Seems logical but just cant seem to figure out if these thermos are the right ones. CopperKettles earlier post uses the thermos we bought.

              Thanks for your help in advance.

              Best
              Darren
              Old 690 Brewing Company

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              • #52
                We bought those same thermostats and never used them, got Johnson controllers instead, much simpler. Put the probe in the tank thermowell, plug the pump into the controller, plug controller into the wall, done.

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                • #53
                  Darren, the temp controllers you bought require some wiring work

                  CopperKettles built his own enclosure and wired everything up through it. If you have someone that has electrical knowledge it isn't too tough but at the end of the day, It doesn't cost much more money to buy the Johnson a419's.

                  If you stick with what you've got, you need to buy a plastic enclosure at a home depot along with a plug and some receptacles. Put simply, you mount and wire 2 receptacles on the enclosure for the pumps, and a plug to the wall to power everything. It requires cutting out holes for the controllers and possibly the receptacles depending on what enclosures are available at the store. Once the enclosure for the 2 controllers is built, you can run the temperature sensor to the thermowell how you see fit. I have seen a lot of people slip it beneath the glycol pipe insulation to the ferm and then to the thermowell.



                  Here is my question since I too am thinking of attempting this with a 3/4hp chiller: I understand how to control 2 tanks with the chiller (1 pump and controller per tank). But What I would like to achieve is running 3 or 4 tanks off the chiller with a single pump (with a Johnson and red hat valve per tank). Some people are doing this with the beer line chiller but I am still perplexed. If each tank has a johnson controller connected to a solenoid valve and I have everything plumbed inline with a return line, what activates the pump? Does the pump have to be running 24/7 for this to work? Is this the standard for all the big boys with the larger systems? I always assumed that the pump shuts on and off only when 1 or more solenoids are activated but I can't seem to find someone doing this.

                  I know that the pumps that come with the chillers are designed for high pressure small lines, but assume I used a larger, more appropriate pump with a large enough supply line to service all the tanks, then what would I need to do? I thought running a pump 24/7 would be a waste of power and shorten the pump's life but I am just wondering what the standard is.

                  Is anyone out there running a single pump with solenoid valves? And if so, let me know how you have your pump setup.

                  Oh, and if you are wondering, my setup would be a 3/4hp 6000btu chiller with the hopes of handling 3 3bbl ferms and 1 3bbl bright at maximum capacity. I understand this may be pushing it, but if people are able to cool 2 10's or 2 7's with one, then I think it should be possible in this application since only 1 or 2 of my ferms would be active at one time and the temperature rise on 3bbl's is almost negligible. As for my bright, I would think that a 12hr crash is plenty fast anyway. Thoughts?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by GritCity View Post
                    Here is my question since I too am thinking of attempting this with a 3/4hp chiller: I understand how to control 2 tanks with the chiller (1 pump and controller per tank). But What I would like to achieve is running 3 or 4 tanks off the chiller with a single pump (with a Johnson and red hat valve per tank). Some people are doing this with the beer line chiller but I am still perplexed. If each tank has a johnson controller connected to a solenoid valve and I have everything plumbed inline with a return line, what activates the pump? Does the pump have to be running 24/7 for this to work? Is this the standard for all the big boys with the larger systems? I always assumed that the pump shuts on and off only when 1 or more solenoids are activated but I can't seem to find someone doing this.

                    I know that the pumps that come with the chillers are designed for high pressure small lines, but assume I used a larger, more appropriate pump with a large enough supply line to service all the tanks, then what would I need to do? I thought running a pump 24/7 would be a waste of power and shorten the pump's life but I am just wondering what the standard is.

                    Is anyone out there running a single pump with solenoid valves? And if so, let me know how you have your pump setup.

                    Oh, and if you are wondering, my setup would be a 3/4hp 6000btu chiller with the hopes of handling 3 3bbl ferms and 1 3bbl bright at maximum capacity. I understand this may be pushing it, but if people are able to cool 2 10's or 2 7's with one, then I think it should be possible in this application since only 1 or 2 of my ferms would be active at one time and the temperature rise on 3bbl's is almost negligible. As for my bright, I would think that a 12hr crash is plenty fast anyway. Thoughts?
                    Yes, the pump generally runs 24/7. You should have a pressure relief valve between the supply and return lines to ensure you don't overpressure it or overheat the pump. You'd need a PLC or at least a logic gate or something (an arduino would work if you wanted to tinker with it) to do something otherwise.

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                    • #55
                      Tanks Not Cooling with 3/4HP Foxx Unit

                      So we got the Foxx unit hooked up with two external thermostats running into fairly short (still not insulated) 1/2" pvc runs that dead end to 3/8 in flex tube going into the two brite tanks. We filled the brites with water, turned the ambient room temp down to 65 degrees and started the gylcol chiller with a bath temp of 28. After 12 hours the brites were only at 47 degrees with the bath maintain 28 deg and a return supply temp of 40. Something doesn't seem right here. While the brites are OLD grundy tanks that are jacketed, it seems the moisture line on the front of the tanks reaches only half way up the manway...meaning it seems the glycol isnt cooling the top half of the tank. The tanks themselves are wood wrapped with a light rubber insulation underneath so they dont seem very insulated at all.

                      Here are my thoughts on a remedy:

                      1. insulate the brites with a thicker EPDM Closed Cell Rubber
                      2. change the pvc tubing to 3/4 inch
                      3. change the 3/8 supply and return on the glycol unit to 3/4
                      4. change the 3/8 supply and return on the tanks to 3/4
                      5. insulate the pvc tubing

                      With better insulation and better glycol volume/flow I am thinking this may bring my temps down in the mid 30's where we need them.

                      Any thoughts or comments?

                      Thanks
                      Darren

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                      • #56
                        14 BBL Fv's

                        We're about to upgrade to a seven barrel kit from our three, and while holding onto the 7 bbl Fv's that run on this system as described is not a question, I'm thinking about picking up some 15 bbl FV's (filling them with 14 bbls) and running them off the Micromatic 1 HP draft line chiller. It says it will process 7k btu's/hr which, according to my rough math, should work to knock an fv from 70 to 34 or so within 20 hrs. We all know theory doesn't equate to practice in most things, so has anyone come up with a similar solution and applied it to their brewery with any success or failure?
                        Aaren M. Simoncini
                        The Beer'd Brewing Co. LLC
                        22 Bayview Ave. Unit # 15
                        Stonington, CT. 06378
                        Aaren@beerdbrewing.com

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by StonesThrow View Post
                          That's exactly what we currently use. One pump and four 3BBL fermenters. It handles the load without a sweat. It will even crash 3BBL from ferment to 35F in about 5-6 hours, which is too fast!

                          It takes a little retro-fitting, since the pump comes with 1/4" barbs and our fermenters have 3/4" glycol lines, but it was easy. Saved a lot of money for us too.

                          However, on our next expansion when we add multiple more 6BBL to the mix, we will have to replace it. This chiller at least got us going and has given us faithful service in the meantime.
                          Has anyone seen or tried this unit for running two 3.5BBL primaries?
                          350 Foot, 2 Pump Power Pack Beer Chiller 12 Gallon Tank Capacity 3/4 HP (Air Cooled) With the CWA-34 glycol beer line cooling system, you can support up to 350 feet of cooling line from your glycol beer chiller to your beer faucet. This glycol chiller features a heavy duty 3/4 HP compressor and has 2 pumps allowing you to push glycol through 2 separate trunk lines. The 12 gallon glycol tank capacity will keep your product cold from cooler to faucet. If your glycol beer chiller is situated far away from your draft-beer tower, a cooling line as long as this is going to be a huge advantage. This glycol beer system is also considered one of the most heavy-duty glycol cooling systems available nowadays. This glycol beer chiller, which features two pumps, is air cooled. This is just one of several glycol cooling systems available here at Rapids Wholesale that can be used for both wines and beers. The BVL CWA-34 Glycol Beer Chiller Cooling System This BVL Glycol Chiller can handle up to 2 trunk lines with mulitple beer lines. The 12 gallon tank along with the powerful 3/4 HP motor has enough cooling power to support cooling product line for up to 350 feet total from your cooler location to your faucet location, keeping it cold all the way. Remember to consider that trunk line with 10 products or more have 2 outgoing and 2 retun glycol lines, thus doubling the length of line to figure into our setup. One of the best ways to keep brewery, restaurant and bar customers and consumers happy is to serve them the highest quality product possible. Glycol systems were designed mainly for this purpose. The taste of beer can be easily ruined if it warms up as it travels through the keg line, even going so far as to affect your business. Keeping the beer at a regulated temperature with the glycol chilling system is enhanced with the added digital thermostat to ensure that your beer is at the temperature of the highest quality. Features of the 2 Pump Glycol Beer Chiller CWA-34 12 Gallon Tank Capacity of glycol solution (mix 70% water, 30% glycol) 3/4 HP Compressor 2 pumps Voltage 208 / 230 6.5 amp BTU 5800 Refirgeratnt R-134a Charge 16 oz 1' foam insulation 134 Lbs. Pressure Approximate 18 Low / 150 High Pump Gravity Feed 80 GPH Dimensions H 29' x W 26.5 x D 17.0 Warranty For BVL CWA-34 Glycol Beer Chiller 1 year parts and labor 5 year compressor warranty

                          Also, noob question but have to ask about flow:
                          Assuming glycol leaves chiller>enters jacket>exits jacket>returns to chiller
                          AND assuming johnson controller probe is in each fermenter thermowell, power cord is plugged daisy chain into pump (which is plugged into 110v outlet)

                          I have the following questions:
                          if you are running a glycol unit with a pump dedicated to each fermenter, do you need solenoid valves?
                          if you have one pump with multiple fermenters, like StonesThrow, does each fermenter need to be plumbed with a bypass?
                          Do they need a bypass regardless? how does the glycol return if the jacket is "closed" and is not calling for more glycol?
                          Thank you and apologies if this is 101 and the answer is right in front of me.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            With multiple vessels on single process pump, you will build a SUPPLY Header feeding each of the vessel jacket inlets and an RETURN Header to which your outlets are connected (pipe them in parallel versus the "daisy chain" or in series) .

                            A control/solenoid valve is mounted on the supply side of the tanks that opens or closes based on the vessel temperature. A single bypass at the end of your loop is needed, in the event all of your tanks are off- to prevent deadheading the pump and damaging the pump seals.

                            Here is alink to an article that goes over the basics of brewery glycol systems that might be helpful.


                            good luck,

                            Jim
                            Pro Chiller Systems

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I was about to post this link until I saw that Jim beat me to it. It has been very helpful. Studying the diagram at the end of the pdf should answer most questions.

                              alex


                              Originally posted by jimvgjr View Post
                              With multiple vessels on single process pump, you will build a SUPPLY Header feeding each of the vessel jacket inlets and an RETURN Header to which your outlets are connected (pipe them in parallel versus the "daisy chain" or in series) .

                              A control/solenoid valve is mounted on the supply side of the tanks that opens or closes based on the vessel temperature. A single bypass at the end of your loop is needed, in the event all of your tanks are off- to prevent deadheading the pump and damaging the pump seals.

                              Here is alink to an article that goes over the basics of brewery glycol systems that might be helpful.


                              good luck,

                              Jim
                              Pro Chiller Systems

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                You guys have really taken this thread and run with it! I haven't really checked it over the last year. Please remember that this is an inexpensive way to get by but not a long term solution. I have tolerated this setup far too long and spent the funds I should have on a chiller on other things because I had a system in place that worked well enough and I DIDN'T want to just put a band-aid 3-5HP chiller in when I really needed 15-20HP long term.

                                I would not advise cooling more than one tank with a single pump. The pumps on these units are HIGH pressure LOW flow rate pumps and not ideal for what we are asking of them in this scenario anyway. They are designed to cool draft lines, not fermenters. Splitting that flow rate over multiple tanks will result in even poorer performance. I would anticipate a circulation header setup on a single pump with 3-4 fermenters to perform HORRIBLY.

                                To the guy that had trouble cooling a 4 barrel tank and felt he needed 3HP to do the job; my 3/4 HP dual pump setup has been cooling dual 30 barrel fermenters (Not well I would add, but serviceable if you are patient, and NEVER fermenting two beers at once) for over two years without fail. The only trouble I ever had was trying to ferment 30 barrels of a 28 plato wort and the chiller could not keep up with the heat produced by the intense fermentation. It rose from 67F to 75F over the first night of fermenting so I hooked up a separate chiller to the cone vs sidewall jackets just to get through those first 4-5 days of intense fermentation heat and it got back down to 68F within a few hours.

                                When cooling the bath temperature should come very near to the tank temperature when actively cooling. IE if the FV is at 70F the glycol should rise to something like 65F and maintain that 5F differential all the way down as far as you want to go. I regularly cool 30bbl tanks to 30F from 70F but it takes ~ 3 days to do so. If you bath temperature is 20-40F lower than your tank you are not extracting heat from the beer and something is wrong with your setup.

                                I have a $40k 15HP dual compressor chiller setup coming in this month as part of expanding our fermentation capacity and we will finally retire these units. The new chiller will take us up to 15-20 x 30 bbl fermenters.

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